Is coffee addictive? A professor debunks myths repeated by half of Poland. Episode 119

Monika Rachtan
Hi, Monika Rachtan. I would like to welcome you very warmly to the next episode of the programme "First Patient". And today we are going to talk about pleasures that used to be forbidden, but are today? Well, we will ask our expert, Professor Regina Wierzejska. Good morning, and a warm welcome. About whether coffee, which Poles love so much, is healthy for us. Professor Wierzejska is an expert in nutrition and food safety, and has in fact been researching this subject for many years. Professor, well, how many coffees a day can we drink?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
You just said at the beginning that indeed coffee has so historically been associated with a stimulant, that is, a product that had a bad or more bad effect on health. In fact, in scientific publications from the 1980s-90s, it was even positioned alongside tobacco.

Monika Rachtan
Have we really perceived so much? Have we perceived our beloved coffee that badly?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Well, that's right. And as a result, actually over the last 20 years it has slowly started to move to harmless products, and more recently to beneficial products. Well, and today indeed the scientific literature is very favourable to coffee and we know that actually coffee has health-promoting effects. But interestingly, about 50 per cent of consumers believe that coffee affects health, but don't really know how.

Monika Rachtan
That is, Madam Professor, to dispel all the myths and tell our audience how it really is. If we drink a cup of coffee a day, two cups of coffee a day, three cups of coffee a day, it is healthy. I would say that we have scientific studies, scientific publications. That is, someone took this coffee to a laboratory and there, in a laboratory setting, in a scientific setting, clever people leaned into this health problem and made an analysis that confirmed that we can drink coffee every day and it is safe and even beneficial to our health?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Yes, of course, because I drink coffee almost 60-70% every day of society. Therefore, it is not surprising that it inspires not only scientists but also coffee lovers themselves. Such a best optimal amount of coffee per day is between 3 and 5 cups. These 3 cups are the threshold amount at which we can expect the preventive properties of coffee. A lot of research, a lot of studies show that, for example, when it comes to the risk of type two diabetes, one or two cups is too small an amount for it to reveal its beneficial properties. And these 3 cups of coffee are the smallest amount of coffee drunk every day that can reduce the risk of type two diabetes by 20%.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, but type two diabetes is quite a serious health problem in our country. Several million Poles suffer from type two diabetes, have been diagnosed with the disease, and we know that many people do not, which poses a very serious threat to their health and life. Now, please tell me, at what stage of the disease or of our lives, or at what stage of our health should we drink this coffee in the case of type two diabetes, so that it will have this preventative effect? Now, Professor, I look at you and I know, I am convinced, that you do not have type two diabetes.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
I hope not

Monika Rachtan
So that some diabetologist doesn't come in here and shout that I'm making a diagnosis, but that's what I assume, the professor will confirm in a moment. I do not have type two diabetes. And now, if I drink these 3-4 coffees a day, is this a prophylactic measure, or if I already have diabetes, if my fasting sugars appear higher, let's say, not 100, but actually not 90, but 120, 130, 140, then this coffee, let's say drunk at some stage during the day, can significantly reduce my glycaemic levels. Have such studies also been carried out and do we have knowledge of this?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
In other words, when it comes to prevention, it is supposed to work even before the onset of disease. And this is where the research is being carried out around the world today, but the first study that actually opened our eyes to the fact that coffee can have a health-promoting effect and reduce the risk of this disease came from the Netherlands, where it was shown that the protective effect of coffee actually increased with the amount of coffee consumed. And just these three four cups of coffee a day reduced the risk by these 20%. And with seven cups of coffee, because it was a study in the Netherlands, in the Netherlands you also drink a lot of coffee, it reduced the risk by 50%. So let's maybe translate that into more colloquial language, that is, people who drank that much coffee were twice as likely to develop diabetes as people who didn't drink coffee or who drank less than two cups a day.

Monika Rachtan
OK, but what is the maximum value? How many cups at the most can we drink a day for it to still be healthy? And when that might not necessarily be healthy, might cause some health problems? Do we even know that, for example: when we drink 12 cups of coffee...? I don't know anyone who drinks that much. But maybe the professor has this knowledge, then could this already become dangerous for us in some way?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
I mean here I would go more in the direction of the caffeine dose itself, because the safe intake of caffeine established by the European Food Safety Authority, but also by American health organisations, is set at 400 milligrams a day, and 200 milligrams in pregnant women. In pregnant women, it is 200 milligrams. However, we can speak of a risk that is already perceptible in the body at an intake of more than 600 milligrams. So these 600 milligrams would be, for example, six fairly strong coffees. But of course, coffee is not the same as coffee. And this is also a topic that I think is worth bringing up on air. How much caffeine is actually in the different types of coffee? Because I don't think the public has this knowledge either.

Monika Rachtan
Well, coffee, if it has a health-promoting effect, must have nutritional values that benefit our body. What are these nutritional values? Are they substances that we know from our daily lives and that we also find in other products? Is coffee an exception here? Or shall I even use such a trendy word, which has been appearing a lot on social media lately? Can we consider coffee to be such a superfood?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Exactly. Coffee has a huge number of ingredients and this may even surprise you, because actually in such a liquid, where is it all? You could ask the question like this. It is estimated that coffee, including aromatic substances, of which there are also many, contains around a thousand ingredients. The most commonly known ingredient is caffeine. This is a substance that is known to be psychoactive, but I would also like to say that it is not a substance that is considered to be addictive.

Monika Rachtan
So coffee is not addictive after all?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
It is not addictive. We drink coffee because we like it. In contrast, the literature shows that caffeine, as a plant alkaloid, does not meet the criteria of a substance considered addictive.

Monika Rachtan
So all those aunts, grandmothers who say: gosh, what are you, drinking so much coffee? Are you addicted? They are the ones who are not right at all. So now we can pull out the scientific research, Professor? No, no, no. Caffeine is safe. It's a substance that is psychoactive but not addictive. It's like psychoactive. What does it do to us? Maybe it makes us more cheerful?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
As it is psychoactive, meaning that it crosses the blood-brain barrier, it influences, well, first of all, such a mood, a person's well-being, but above all an increase in concentration. Here is an interesting fact. Maybe not everyone knows this, that scientific studies have proven that the minimum amount of caffeine that would have a beneficial effect on thought processes, on improving such in such cognitive elements is a dose of 75 milligrams of caffeine. Smaller amounts showed no effect, but on the other hand, coffees that contained more than 200 milligrams of caffeine per cup are also detrimental. This is because with such a single amount, no reaction can be just the opposite. This can result in a lack of concentration and a feeling that the body is a bit wrecked. So if we were to talk about an ideal coffee, it would have between 75 and 200 milligrams of caffeine.

Monika Rachtan
We have different products on the market, which we commonly call coffee, because there are different forms of this coffee, because we have coffee beans, we have ground coffee, we have instant coffee, and this caffeine content is, however, crucial for us in terms of its influence on our mood and, it turns out, also on our health. Instead of talking about these values precisely in terms of grammage, can we talk about the values that we see every day, which coffee to choose, which coffee to reach for? When we are in the supermarket, we are simply making everyday consumer choices. Which coffee will have the best impact on our health?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Meaning, because you are talking about coffee as a commercial product, packaged? Coffee beans?

Monika Rachtan
Yes, well not just grains, right?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
That is, we are talking about the product as coffee bought in a café or a bakery confectionery.

Monika Rachtan
We'll talk about that in a moment too, but I'm talking about this product that we choose in the market, which is the one in different forms, because as I said, we have coffee beans, coffee that is, beans that we have to come home, use the grinder and grind. We have one that has already been ground, and we also have instant coffee, which is probably the most convenient in terms of use. So now, in this area, do we have the best and the worst?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
I understand. It is a fairly well-known fact that robusta coffee has twice as much caffeine as arabica coffee. So who would care about such a stimulating effect of coffee? Well, he or she would probably be inclined to choose this kind of coffee, although it is considered to be quite astringent, and coffee is more delicate. As far as instant coffee is concerned, it's perhaps a worthwhile topic, because indeed in Poland instant coffee doesn't have a good reputation, and for some time now the producers of such coffee have even been writing 100% natural coffee on the packaging, because some people say that it's not coffee itself, that it's not any coffee, and it is coffee. And I have to say that it is known, it is coffee concentrate, when it comes to the content of these beneficial ingredients, such as: polyphenols with good anti-inflammatory, antioxidant properties, this instant coffee has three times more of these compounds than coffee brewed from normal ground coffee, because it is simply coffee concentrate, that is, coffee concentrated in a sense. Previously brewed and concentrated.

Monika Rachtan
That is, something that is, shall we say, processed. Well, because the bean, however, seems to us to be in its natural form, that is to say, processed, that is to say, soluble coffee can show even more nutritional value when we use just such a bean.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
I mean, I would say to you that the studies that are being carried out into the effects of coffee on, for example, the risk of cancer, on the risk of cardiovascular disease, show to the same extent that people who drink instant coffee and those who drink traditional coffee, these beneficial effects in the body are the same, comparable. So, therefore, we absolutely have to refute that instant coffee is an inferior coffee. But of course, maybe those who get intoxicated when brewing coffee with that smell that comes from the kitchen and so on are. Then these effects are more enhanced than with instant coffee. But it is still a coffee that has the same valuable ingredients as traditional coffees.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, in Poland recently, drinking coffee, drinking coffee in cafés, savouring this beverage, has become fashionable. I would even say it has become fancy for connoisseurs of just such a café lifestyle. Coffee shops organise Coffee Day, when you can take advantage of various promotions and drink coffee in different places around the city, compare brewing methods and how the coffee is served. However, I recently read a piece of information, and I don't know if you are aware that I live in Wrocław and am from Lower Silesia, that people used to visit vineyards in Lower Silesia in order to taste different varieties of wine which, say, 10 years ago were a novelty in Lower Silesia. And that now those who are most up-to-date with fashionable food, but also, above all, with healthy food. Well, when we talk about wine, well, here we can already find more benefits and disadvantages for health. With coffee, on the other hand, we have a superfood, we have something that is tasty, something that is healthy, something that is fashionable, and that in Lower Silesia people now go to visit cafes and coffee roasters. And that this has moved to Poland, that we are becoming a leader when it comes to coffee, which is at a very high level. Have you also noticed such a trend and interest? Well, because you mentioned that both European and American institutions dealing with food are conducting research, and you in Poland, at the Institute, are probably carrying out various studies that relate to products that are offered to consumers in our country, and are we really the leader of this superfood?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
It is well known that we are not one of the populations with the highest coffee consumption, because in Europe, apart from the aforementioned Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries, and in fact mainly Sweden, are the leaders. There, the average coffee consumption is about 12 kilograms per capita per year. In Poland today, it is estimated at around 3 kilograms, but indeed coffee is becoming more popular. We see it as we walk down the street, that every now and then we are tempted by coffee corners. It is indeed a product that can be categorised as a so-called functional food. Although, as with superfoods, we do not have a legal definition of functional food. However, the number of beneficial effects that the literature nowadays discovers when drinking coffee does indeed entitle us to classify coffee as a food of some truly special properties, perhaps even unexpected, because, as we say, we drink coffee because it tastes good to us, because it stimulates us, because we feel good, because we invite someone to join us for coffee. On the other hand, yes, this is where we may not even count on it. It really can have many beneficial effects in the body.

Monika Rachtan
I wonder if there is a limit to how old you should be when you start drinking coffee? Because I remember from my childhood, well, from primary school, the cereal coffee we drank was a bit of a nightmare. Although I really liked it and I didn't understand why people didn't like it. On the other hand, I also remember my childhood being in the 1990s. It was this kind of instant cappuccino that came in this kind of bag that was resealable. And the big thing when it was my mum's birthday or my aunt's birthday was this cappuccino that my aunt would make in a little cup and it was: just one. OK, I was nine years old at the time, so maybe that restriction was OK. Nowadays, however, younger and younger people are reaching for coffee, the Internet, social media and Instagram are calling for it, showing that it's cool, fashionable. At what age should you start drinking coffee? In people of, say, 13, 14, 15 years of age, could this coffee prove harmful? However, the very functionalities that you mentioned, particularly the neurodevelopmental ones, could they have a beneficial effect on such people growing up at the age of 15, 16 or even 13?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
This is a very good question, because if coffee is so, so great, why exactly should we defend children from drinking it? But it is interesting to note that, however, out of the 180 or so countries that have made a recommendation on caffeine, only three countries talk about coffee consumption by people under 18. And here Australia, for example, expresses this view that coffee can be drunk by people over the age of 12, but no more than two cups a day. Most countries in the world currently have not taken a position on what age you can drink coffee from. But it is indeed an inspiring issue, because I think that coffee, in view of its content of these polyphenolic compounds in particular, is certainly a much better alternative than the energy drinks that young people commonly drink.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, and you said caffeine, the ingredient in coffee, which is the one we want to talk about and which gives these health benefits, but: caffeine also appears in many other foods. Is it a good addition to drinks? Is it a good addition to sweets? Is it as good in coffee as in other products? But is coffee the best?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Madam Editor, this ties in a little with what I said at the very beginning, that 75 milligrams of caffeine increases alertness. I would like to say here that the European Food Safety Authority, in evaluating the health claims that could be made on foods, considered that there was absolutely sufficient data to consider this claim reliable, that is, absolutely substantiated by scientific studies. However, this claim was not included in the list of permitted claims for foods, not least because we would expect a great deal of interest from the food industry in the addition of caffeine to various types of products. Personally, I once had such a phone call from a meat company about caffeine being added to sausages and perhaps such a sausage was to be described as some kind of vitalizing, energizing and so on. So there is this interest in caffeine. And indeed today there are bars with added caffeine, not to mention an ever-widening range of different types of drinks. Well, it is a substance that, when consumed in moderate amounts, and moderate amounts are, as I say, 75 to 300 milligrams of caffeine a day, has beneficial effects. So, therefore, well, if that is the case, why should this ingredient be treated as banned or risky in food?

Monika Rachtan
Professor, I am smiling because you have inspired me so much with this caffeine in sausages that I thought, okay, if vegetarians had come up with this, well I can still understand, yes? I understand why that question was asked, but sausage manufacturers? But it shows how the whole industry is just appreciating the value of caffeine. The fact that more and more people have heard about it, read about it, that it's no longer such secret knowledge for scientists, that only there on Umeda do you drink a lot of coffee to function better. However, this is knowledge that is reaching the Poles and which should also be promoted, because in this programme, in the programme First Patient, I very often deal with disinformation, but I also try to fight myths, medical myths. And the moment someone out there on the internet says something is healthy or unhealthy, well we approach it differently. But in the case of coffee. In the case of caffeine, we have hard scientific research that it is a superfood, that it is something that should be in our diet, that it is something that is safe for us, something that can improve our cognitive function.

Monika Rachtan
I wonder what could be even better for us and when we go to Italy, or just go to southern Europe in general, there is a completely different approach to this coffee drinking. This coffee is such a ritual, such an element. I think that the whole perception of drinking coffee, what the professor also mentioned, that it is a social event, that we sit at home and spend the morning with coffee, but that it is also changing very nicely in Poland and that we can appreciate coffee more and more. It's also, as I said, that coffee has simply become fashionable and fancy. But now I'm going to come back to a less pleasant subject, namely diseases. Because the fact that coffee reduces the risk of type two diabetes, we have already said that. But also the studies you mentioned, that is, studies on cancer, cardiovascular diseases, also relate to coffee. And here, could we, could you give us the results of such studies, which prove that coffee also has its benefits?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
As far as this cardiovascular thread is concerned, there was actually quite an entrenched view that coffee increased the risk of cardiovascular disease. I think this stemmed from the accompanying coffee drinking, formerly smoking. Because indeed cigarettes were such a thing. Nowadays, for example, you can't smoke at work, you can't smoke in a café either. And on the street, holding a cup of coffee, it's difficult to go with a cigarette in your hand at the same time, so it's a much rarer A phenomenon today. When it comes to coffee and cardiovascular disease, here is such a large study, actually many centre studies from many countries showed on a group of more than 400,000 patients conducted over 15 years that people who consume at least three cups of coffee a day, for example, have a 20% lower risk of stroke. But, Madam Editor, I too, out of my duty as a scientist, must emphasise one important thing here that these are epidemiological, or observational studies. Of course, on the one hand, in such studies, which last many years, certain phenomena can be observed, well, because there is this space of time, but on the other hand, the people participating in them, the people studied, may change their lifestyles in the meantime and not report everything to the authors of the study. And the kind of research that is considered top-of-the-range in science, that is, randomised clinical trials, we simply can't do, because someone who doesn't like coffee won't want to drink it for a few years for the researchers to see what happens, and someone who does drink it won't give it up for the purposes of the study.

Monika Rachtan
Well, yes. On the other hand, how do you cheat when you want to give a placebo, right? Here, too, there would be a big problem, but you, Professor, mentioned studies that involve cardiac patients, patients who are struggling with cardiovascular disease. And just to convince you, I would also like to say that the guests on my programme, Professor Maciej Banach, Professor Artur Mamcarz, who have been sitting here on this couch for a few weeks or so, time passes so quickly, also conducted such research concerning cardiological patients. So this research on coffee is not some kind of research done on the other side of the world, somewhere in America, but it is research which has also interested Polish scientists and which has also been conducted in our country. And I think this is also important, because you mentioned this lifestyle. And just as we can say that somewhere in the west of Europe or in the south of Europe people live differently, or in America people live differently, these observations that we are talking about here today also concerned Polish patients.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
No, of course not. I mean, it seems that the amount of data coming from all over the world, from Europe, from Japan, from America, where different types of coffees are drunk, but all these studies indicate, suggest and therefore, well, we believe that there is a hypothesis that coffee has a beneficial effect in the body and reduces the risk of cardiovascular diseases or cancer. We cannot downplay this research, because there is so much of it that it is impossible to dispute.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, and hypertension? The bane of Poles, which has been around for 20-30 years or so as a disease, I might say already a population disease. Can people who suffer from hypertension, who are taking hypotensive medication, can they drink coffee? Is it safe? Do we have any studies here as well?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Absolutely. People who already have hypertension under medical supervision absolutely do not have to give up drinking coffee. However, it is interesting to note that coffee as such raises blood pressure by up to several millimetres of mercury column in people who do not habitually drink coffee. On the other hand, regular coffee drinkers develop a so-called tolerance. And this precise effect of caffeine, because caffeine is probably responsible for this, is minimised. But it is true that people who don't drink coffee on a daily basis and, for example: in some company are tempted to have a coffee, later say that they didn't sleep all night because they drank coffee. Also such people really have to expect that there will be an increase in blood pressure, because their body has not developed this tolerance to the effects of caffeine.

Monika Rachtan
What about cancer? Because in Poland we are generally afraid of heart attacks and cancer. And this would also seem to be an important issue for many people. Can coffee contribute to the development of cancer? Or can it prevent them? What does this look like? Have you investigated this too?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Our institute has not carried out any such studies, but the scientific literature tells us that in the case of cancer, as early as the 1990s the International Agency for Research on Cancer signalled that coffee, drinking coffee, could reduce the risk of colorectal cancer, and subsequent studies carried out on a large scale all over the world have shown that indeed, regular coffee drinking, just these three to five cups, which is the most health-promoting moderate amount, can reduce the risk of colorectal cancer by about 30%. But even more optimistic are the data on liver cancer. And here it is presumed that people who drink coffee are half as likely to develop this type of cancer as those who do not drink coffee or who drink it occasionally.

Monika Rachtan
It's interesting, because the professor mentioned those areas of our body, our systems, which are specifically concerned with the digestive system. So it would seem that where we would expect the negative effects of coffee, and here is the liver, which is something that Poles certainly, we have problems with, but also the large intestine. And also usually when we think about colorectal cancer, it's somehow due to lifestyle. And it used to be that when people talked about a bad lifestyle, it was coffee that was mentioned somewhere, but today its position in this food pyramid has completely changed.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
It has changed, and what I said at the beginning that coffee was in the category of stimulants, in fact, even today I was looking it up yesterday in some Polish language dictionaries, explaining what the term stimulant means. They still list coffee as one of the typical examples of a stimulant. Well this is changing, this attitude has changed. Science has actually disproved this knowledge, which spoke of the risks associated with drinking coffee. So today we can drink with confidence, people who like it, because let's not force ourselves to drink coffee like a drug either. If someone does not like coffee, there is no need to force them to drink it. On the other hand, those who like it very much can do so without any remorse that they are harming their health at the expense of pleasure.

Monika Rachtan
And as we have listed a group of people who would benefit from drinking coffee, can we say that coffee is forbidden for someone too? Or would it be rather difficult to find such a group of people, because I am not saying patients, but in general such a group of people who should rather give up this coffee?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
I mean when it comes to a total ban on coffee, I can't actually think of any such population groups. It is known that pregnant women should limit their coffee drinking.

Monika Rachtan
Restrict that is?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Yes, but it's the two coffees in a day, for example, that they can absolutely afford. Well, as you know, caffeine passes through the placenta to the foetus, the caffeine gland, so, therefore, caution is advisable. However, as far as cardiovascular diseases are concerned, the scientific literature gives preference to filter-brewed coffee, which retains lipid compounds, the so-called diterpenes. And these compounds were shown in the 1980s to increase the concentration of LDL cholesterol and homocysteine, and therefore these risk factors for the development of cardiovascular disease. So people with dyslipidaemia are advised to choose brewed, filtered coffee rather than the kind traditionally prepared by pouring boiling water directly into a cup.

Monika Rachtan
I would also like to address another theory that I am sure has appeared on social media, but which has also been floating around our society for many years by word of mouth. That is, people who drink a lot of coffee should take magnesium supplements, because coffee leaches magnesium out, and there were even products on the shelves that included coffee with magnesium. Cappuccino with magnesium. Is it reasonable to take this supplementation? And what is the truth? Does coffee actually leach magnesium?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Yes, this is quite a common opinion in Poland. And I even saw once such an advertisement for magnesium supplements that if you drink coffee you are at risk of magnesium deficiency. This is not a valid theory, as coffee itself contains magnesium. Such 3-4 cups supply covers about 20% of your daily requirement. However, when it comes to this leaching, I am associated with such a study conducted in people who introduced 4 to 6 cups of coffee per day into their diet. This magnesium excretion relative to the total pool of magnesium excreted in the urine, this coffee-derived magnesium accounted for 3% of the amount of magnesium excreted. That is, these are very small amounts, not counting. And also such studies on the other hand, which show that people who previously did not drink coffee and agreed to drink it for a few weeks, the concentration of magnesium in the blood even increased by a few percent.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, that means we can safely say that it is such fake news regarding coffee drinking that coffee leaches....

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Absolutely fake news. But of course, please do not regard coffee in the diet as some kind of rich source of magnesium, because in this respect it is absolutely not ahead of products such as buckwheat, for example.

Monika Rachtan
Professor, I said at the very beginning that you have been involved in food safety for years, you are an expert in nutrition. Therefore, when I have the opportunity to host someone who is so knowledgeable about a super important issue, about food, which affects each and every one of us every day, please tell me whether all these changes that have been brought about by the Internet, social media, all these trends that have emerged in this space. In your opinion, have they caused us in Poland to take a little better care of our diet, to eat a little better and also to have greater access to what we today call superfoods? However, when we compare this market, which was available to us 10-15 years ago, today we can say that we really do have a lot to choose from and that if we want to eat healthily in our country, it is possible and within our reach.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Of course. The consumption of different food groups has changed a lot over the years. Today there is absolutely less consumption of animal fats in favour of vegetable oils. And this is a good change. Comparing the diet of Poles in general so historically. It is well known that 30-40 years ago there was no fast food, which today is quite common. We very often pass these restaurants on the street and they are quite popular, especially among young people. It is therefore necessary to make a clear statement as to whether the diet of Poles has improved over the last 30 years or whether it has worsened somewhat. The answer is really quite difficult, because there is, of course, a greater consumption of fruit and vegetables, because in fact these are products we have all year round. Even strawberries can be bought in December or January, but on the other hand, there is now a lot of so-called highly processed food, which is also a little more nutritionally poorer than what we used to have in the 1980s. In relation to this, I have to tell you that, as a mature scientist, I am not in a position here in front of the camera to say whether we are eating better than we did in the 1970s or worse. It really is a very complex, complex question.

Monika Rachtan
I think this is also... Thank you very much for your honesty, but I also think that it is a very individual thing, depending on what we listen to on the internet, what we read in various articles. Also, what our environment is like, because it has a huge impact on how we eat, but also what our motivation is to eat healthily. When I look at what the shelves look like today and what they looked like 10 or 15 years ago, I can honestly say that I am very proud of the fact that so much food, so much healthy food, which has a positive impact on our bodies, is available, that even when we go to a small shop, "tararamtamtamam", we can find something healthy, and it is as if there is nothing difficult for anyone who wants it. The professor also mentioned animal fats and this reduction in the consumption of animal fats. I myself don't eat meat and I know how difficult it used to be for me to buy something in a shop, for example: when I was on a trip, when I wanted to eat something fast. But now it's much, much easier and I think that's very, very positive. Fast food restaurants, on the other hand, are definitely a big problem, especially health-wise. On the other hand, a restaurant with a golden "M" once a year can't hurt anyone. The important thing is not to eat there every day. But this is one very important thing. We also have coffee there, and if we are staying there, why not have a coffee instead of that famous burger? Professor, if you had to give advice to our audience on how to introduce or use coffee wisely every day, what would you suggest? What products to choose, what to look out for? How should we treat this coffee when it comes to our daily choices, so that it brings as many health benefits as possible?.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Perhaps it is worth saying at the end that, as we all know, coffee has more than one name, and when we talk about a cup of coffee, we cannot really think of a universal coffee that we all drink in the same way, because coffee is indeed very different. And here, well maybe I'll say a few words about my own research, which I did on almost 300 samples taken repeatedly from all over Poland. From coffee shops, bakeries, petrol stations and other places where you buy take-away coffee, but also coffee brewed using the simple home method of pouring coffee into a cup. And we found that coffees bought in town had three times the caffeine content of home-brewed coffees. And here, too, what many Poles may think of as espresso coffee, that it is a strong coffee, it is important to realise that due to the very small portion of this coffee, because it is about 30 millilitres, this coffee turned out to be the weakest coffee in terms of caffeine content, and the strongest was americano coffee. Also, when choosing coffees just somewhere in town, we have to reckon that each cup of coffee has a different caffeine content. It also varies a lot, of course, because the coffee as a bean, then with the brewing method, then also with the processing during roasting. Its composition changes, of course, but the variability is so great that, to put it properly, no one is sure what is in the cup of coffee they are just holding in their hands. Also, in a way, it is such a big unknown that one could even say that someone listening to us now might say that what do scientists actually know about coffee, since every coffee is different. But here, indeed, this variability is so great in caffeine and polyphenol content that one could actually say that no one has ever drunk two cups of coffee that are identical in terms of composition.

Monika Rachtan
Exactly, but Professor, I will ask you at the end: then what is better? Buying coffee from a petrol station café? Or prepare it yourself at home? Do we, because if we do not know, well, it is difficult to influence this, but still, can we do something to be more sure that our coffee is the better one simply for our health?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
And I will tell the editor this way, because I associate the conclusion of such a study, where they just brewed homemade coffees. The same person brewed coffees from the same unit pack for several consecutive days and the difference in caffeine content was sixfold.

Monika Rachtan
Really?

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Therefore, to say exactly what is in our coffee, you would have to do a laboratory study of what exactly is in that cup of coffee. But here I want to say that we, as scientists, have to deal somehow with this variability in ingredient content, and we estimate that the average coffee generally provides 80-90 milligrams of caffeine, which, by comparison, is four times more than a typical glass of black tea.

Monika Rachtan
If you would now like to count how many times the word coffee has been mentioned in our conversation today, I leave you with this challenge and look forward to your comments. You know very well that in the programme "First Patient" I always try to take care of your health and that I try to fight myths and fake news at every step, and I think that today we have managed to dispel many myths and fake news together with the Professor. Professor, thank you very much for this conversation, which was very informative and gave us a little bit of leeway, but one thing...

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
There is definitely a lot of backlash.

Monika Rachtan
One thing we are allowed and not forbidden to do in life, and that is that coffee is really safe and, above all, it is good for your health. So two cups, three cups, even four, even six, is not a sin and you can safely indulge yourself. My dear friends, my guest, but above all your guest, was Professor Regina Wierzejska. Thank you very much, Madam.

Prof. Regina Wierzejska
Thank you also.

Monika Rachtan
For today's talk. And that was the programme "First. Patient". My name is Monika Rachtan and, as always, I wish you good health, also enjoy your coffee and see you in the next episode.