The 100th anniversary episode of 'Patient First'. Episode 100

Bard Kowalski
Hi, my name is Bard Kowalski. Normally, Monika Rachtan is sitting here because we're on the podcast 'First Patient'. This is the 100th episode of this wonderful podcast. Monika Rachtan my guest today.

Monika Rachtan
Good morning, and a warm welcome to you. It's nice sitting here. Gee, at your place.

Bard Kowalski
I would start with how you feel after a change of venue.

Monika Rachtan
Do you know what it's been a bit of a dream of mine to sit on the other side at all. Because I've been getting invited to some TV and radio shows lately, and I've got this sort of lightness of speech. I'll tell you, I've recently noticed that I enjoy being on the other side of the radio so much that I go on the radio, the editor asks me something and I say Good morning, the editor asks me something and it's a bit like, you know, you get burnt out. I mean I'm not saying that I just feel super burnt out after a hundred episodes, but that you're burning out and kind of getting into this other role is very cool, so no. I generally feel very comfortable here with you on this couch. Very nice decor, I want to compliment the studio, beautiful flowers. You have really made an effort.

Bard Kowalski
You praise what you do not know, and you know it very well. Monika. How did the idea for the podcast "Patient First" come about? And do you remember the moment you decided you wanted to create it?

Monika Rachtan
I worked in medical publishing for many years and communicated to doctors. And I was communicating a bit sadly, because I was doing materials for pharmaceutical companies and I totally couldn't do what I wanted to do at all. You know, the melanoma patient pathway, showing what life is like for patients with multiple sclerosis. I had a brief, I had to produce material that would produce advertising, because let's not kid ourselves, it's exactly the same thing. And I've always had this sense that, gee, I'm not doing what I want to do and what I should be doing. And I knew for many, many months that I had to start doing my programme on my own terms, for the people, for you know, for Kowalski simply, and not for the doctors who de facto don't give a damn about the content that I prepare and which doesn't show me at all. And so it happened that I went to a conference one time and I met a man who said to me, 'gee, girl, start doing that'. And he really encouraged me to start. And that's how those 100 episodes went by.

Monika Rachtan
You know, I don't believe at all when I think to myself that I'm about to be two years into the programme, that I've been sitting there for two years and I've had the Minister of Health, the most important experts in Poland, on my couch. When it comes to medicine, I'm kind of rubbing those glasses in my eyes and saying Wow, you did it.

Bard Kowalski
You said the 100th episode, because we're at the 100th episode. Which episode was the most fun?

Monika Rachtan
It's difficult for me to choose, because I don't want to either.

Bard Kowalski
Of course, today's will be the most fun.

Monika Rachtan
Today's, but I don't want to close either. As if that one guest was better, the other guest was worse, because no, because absolutely everyone was important in this programme. I invited them all, I chose them all. Sometimes they approached me, but I made a selection as to whether I wanted the guest in my programme at all, so it's difficult for me to choose. But I remember an episode with Kamila Żur Wyrozumska. Kamila is a neurologist and we generally talked about SLA. It's the kind of disease that takes people's lives in a few months and it was supposed to be about SLA, and it was actually About what a neurologist's job is like when you never hand over to a patient.

Bard Kowalski
Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis?

Monika Rachtan
That's exactly what happens when you don't give the patient good information. Because, you know, in neurology there is no good information either you hear that you have a brain tumour and that it could be different, or you hear that you have some disease that will already cause you to forget what your loved ones look like, for example. So that's where the information is not good. And Kamila talked about how she, as a neurologist, as a doctor, was so dedicated to her patients, how she sacrificed her family, her life. And I remember that then for the first time here, in this programme, there were tears in my eyes. Then there were a few more times that there were tears in my eyes, but the first time I felt that, you know, that it was a bit like with you in the podcast, that some kind of mystery came out. And I kind of feel like I showed the doctor as a human being though. Because, you know, because everyone says a because they just come in, they make a high and it's all about money. And Kamila's testimony showed that she connected with each of these patients, she lived that patient's story. And it was such a chicken, that's when my slippers fell off for the first time in this programme.

Monika Rachtan
If you found our conversation interesting and are looking for more valuable content? Subscribe to us on YouTube and Spotify. Monika Rachtan. You're invited.

Bard Kowalski
The beautiful thing is that you show the doctors from a completely different side and, you know, from the medical side, which is their corem, but also from such a typically human side. And tell me, were there moments of doubt? Did you ever think to yourself No, I don't want to do this anymore, I'm giving up on this podcast.

Monika Rachtan
Generally, working in the medical community is difficult because of the nature of their work, the fact that it's not always like that either. It's not usually the case that a doctor who is only on duty in a hospital and accepts in a private practice, but very often my guests are doctors, professors who, for example, I don't know, transplant livers, do terribly important things, work on the national oncology network. I salute Professor Rutkowski, for example. And you know, and getting on the calendar of these people is very difficult. And sometimes you have so that you have, for example, a list of ten guests. And so you make a call. You call the first one. He can't you call the second one. They can't. You call the third one. He can't. You call the fourth. He can, but he's already calling tomorrow saying he can't do it after all. And then comes the kind of doubt that makes you say I don't want to do this anymore. They don't appreciate my content, the value. After all, I'm the one inviting them to the programme, so they should want to. And it's not always the case that they want to come so badly. And then there's this kind of doubt.

Monika Rachtan
But you know what the biggest reward is when they come in, sit down on the couch and then say Ms Monica, I've never been on a show like this. Super quality, please, my business card, please now directly to me, no longer through the secretariat.

Bard Kowalski
This is me as an outsider in general. And I got to know your podcast relatively, quite recently and I'm very impressed and have started listening to it myself.

Monika Rachtan
That you educate yourself health-wise?

Bard Kowalski
That I'm educating myself health-wise and in general these are really very interesting topics. Monica Going back to two years ago, The first episode. Do you remember what was the biggest challenge of the first episode for Monica Rachtan and for. First Patient?

Monika Rachtan
You know what, it was total armageddon, because of the fact that we were starting to record at all. First of all, the patient when we had the idea was to have audio only. I was already going all in, because I absolutely wanted to have video in general. You know, this authenticity, what also counteracts the misinformation, because nevertheless you have this expert, a real person, who sits and you, Bart, you can check yourself, type yourself on the internet. Oh, is Eve Kalinka sure she looks like that? Well, and you can see that she looks like that. That is to say that she really came in as a lady who is a clinical oncologist and who knows her way around and is not some charlatan or artificial intelligence. So kind of switching over and convincing also the whole team that listen, there's no room at all for some audio, we have to do video. That was the biggest challenge, but it's also a little bit why I feel that when I was working in publishing, my job came at a time when there was a pandemic. And I, like today, didn't.

Monika Rachtan
Jacket top here eye done, hair done. I used to sit normally in front of the comp in sweatpants or pyjama trousers and run conferences. And I think people didn't really grasp a bit that I could go from this laptop to a cool studio and take it all in. And then there was also a time when we got a bit weaned off the face-to-face thing.

Bard Kowalski
How has your approach to patients and to doctors changed over these 100 episodes?

Monika Rachtan
You know, I don't know if it's changed, because I've always thought, and that's also why I started doing this programme, that everyone is totally in the dark about what's going on if they're dealing with sort of joining the medical pathway. So, you know, you're a healthy person now, at least I assume so. Well, and you're completely oblivious to what the pathway of a lung cancer patient is like, for example. And there comes a moment in your life. Of course, I don't wish this on anyone, but the facts are that each of us somewhere at some stage in our lives ends up in a hospital, a doctor and so on. And you don't know at all and you don't know. And that doctor doesn't have time to explain to you, you read the internet and you don't understand anything and. And it always annoyed me. And it was also such a mission of mine, that just these people should find out. And I still think, when it comes to patients, that patients are totally unprepared for this society is totally unprepared to be a sick person and to be a patient.

Monika Rachtan
And what do I think about doctors? That there are different doctors and that the de facto most important thing is that you as a patient should know that first of all the doctor is doing his job and you don't have to ask him for anything, he is just doing his job, if he doesn't want to do something for you, for example he says I won't write you a referral because of something. It's your right to go to another doctor and you don't have to apologise to him for that. You don't have to. you know, not sure what, like make some kind of a pass. It's just your right. It's the patient's right that you go to the other doctor for a second opinion and that you do. I think doctors are different in Poland and you can really meet great, great people who dedicate their lives to patients and you can meet someone who will treat you like another number and you choose which doctor you go to.

Bard Kowalski
It's cool because we have a choice and you emphasise that a lot in your podcasts too. And first of all the patient you show that each of us can go further, we can choose a different doctor. And it's not like the way it used to be. You know there's one doctor for everything and a doctor for nothing. You just show a completely different perspective. So that's really great.

Monika Rachtan
And do you know that people are still not aware that I still encounter such opinions? For example, my mum often says oh, I can't go, I've got a gastroscopy in a month's time, but something's fallen off, I've got to cancel it or reschedule it there. And for her, for example, it's a big stress to call the doctor or the nurse and ask for a new appointment. Mum, if you were going for nails and something popped out, would you have to phone the beautician that you're not coming on Wednesday after all, but could you come on Friday? Well no. And why are you scared of the doctor? He's just as much at work. Well, and still if you go privately.

Bard Kowalski
Such a normalisation of this doctor that it's not like that. Someone very high up there, who you have to have a very big distance from, we just approach him as a normal person.

Monika Rachtan
Of course, respect is due to everyone. Do you go to the doctor, do you go to the hairdresser, do you go to the shop assistant? It is worthwhile, if you are a cultured person, just to have respect for them, and if you show respect in the supermarket, you can behave in the clinic too. But it's to elevate a doctor to some kind of god that you can't, for example, pay attention to him if you don't feel in the surgery that he's pissing you off because he's not looking at you when he talks to you. You have the right to do that. You have the right to. Doctor, I would be fine if you looked at me when we talk. What if he tells you? No, I can't look at you because you don't have the right to leave and go to another doctor.

Bard Kowalski
We must always communicate, because you never know who you're going to run into. And it's cool that you talk about it. Whether it's the cleaning lady or whether it's the CEO of a big company. Everyone deserves the same respect.

Monika Rachtan
If we enter a large company, we always say good morning. When we meet the cleaning lady in the corridor or Mrs Steel in the hospital, we don't say good morning to her. Why do you respect the CEO? Don't you respect the cleaning lady?

Bard Kowalski
With gratitude to all. First. Monika What were the milestones in the After Patients First programme? And do you remember any such key moments?

Monika Rachtan
You know, certainly every key moment is some big conferences that we attend. Well, because apart from doing the programme, well, you know we are invited to different conferences, different meetings and certainly the patient organisation forum is such a moment when a lot happens there. We have new contacts. But you know what, this programme is also so that it is going on all the time. And it's not like I record and it ends, that I leave the studio today and forget for a fortnight. Patient first, because I won't be in the studio until next month. Yes, it's all the time that I'm living this programme, it's every day and it's hard to say that there are some, you know, moments where wow, a lot of things have changed, suddenly a lot of things have opened up, because this programme is developing all the time and every new guest, every new person here on the couch, is some new story.

Bard Kowalski
"First Patient" and Monica Reaktan come to mind, and certainly to your viewers, and new viewers, and those who have been with you from the beginning, and those who have come along. It's a big educational role and that's really phenomenal. And tell me, how do you assess the level of patient awareness in Poland? Do you see any change? Do you see any progression, any change in these people over these 100 episodes?

Monika Rachtan
So you are asking me, have I changed them? Have I been successful? You know, it seems to me that a drop drills the rock and I generally have a very bad opinion of Poles' knowledge when it comes to health. I think that Poles, their knowledge is limited to where their liver is and they don't know anything else about their health, they don't want to know. And today we talk a lot about health education, that children need to be educated, that this education needs to be in schools, or others say that education is sexualisation and absolutely must not be introduced in schools. I, on the other hand, am above this subject at all when it comes to health education for children. And I say quite simply that health education is needed by 20-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds, 50-year-olds, 80-year-olds. Everyone needs health education, for the reason that it has been damn near neglected. Because if some charlatan on the internet is able to tell a man with cancer that vitamin C will cure him, and he stops the therapy that is simply proven, that is recommended by the doctor, and he goes and gives himself vitamin C infusions for 100,000.

Monika Rachtan
Well, I ask myself, where is it at all? Where is any elementary knowledge. After all, if you ask people. Often people also pay attention to me and say Monica, you know, because you're in a bubble. You talk about health every day, you interact with doctors every day, and generally people don't give a damn that they don't know it's there. Recently someone told me that someone was going for a colonoscopy and had to wait a long time. And I said well how do you even know?

Monika Rachtan
How to.

Monika Rachtan
After all, there is a screening programme. Well normally you go and have a colonoscopy in the programme, and if you are 60 or 70, you are absolutely a candidate for screening in the screening programme.

Bard Kowalski
That is to say, you are fighting the fake news that is.

Monika Rachtan
I mean not more, you know, with ignorance. Well, because do you know how many screening programmes there are in Poland? Well, you don't know.

Bard Kowalski
I have no idea.

Monika Rachtan
Well, you don't. And it seems to me that you know. And it goes through my head that you don't know what they are, though. And if I ask you how you can join them and so on, well, you have absolutely no knowledge of them.

Bard Kowalski
In general.

Monika Rachtan
Well, and the point is that in general 90% Poles have no knowledge of this subject. So if you ask me how I rate the knowledge of the Poles, I think they have a one minus in health education. Did my programme for 100 episodes change anything? Unfortunately not, which is why I'll be doing it for another 100 episodes. We'll see, maybe something will move. But, of course, somewhere among younger people, let's say our generation of 30- and 40-year-olds, the awareness is already a little better, greater, because they are interested in their health. However, in this age group, I would say 55, 60+, 70+, these people totally believe in fake news and reach for knowledge that is the simplest. So, for example, if someone tells you that you know that obesity needs to be fought, you ask yourself, but how do I fight obesity? And they will say well, it's best to take magic tabs to do nothing, something they give you in such a package. Monday. Tuesday. Wednesday. Thursday. Friday.

Bard Kowalski
And what needs to be done?

Monika Rachtan
To lose weight? Well, you know, I'll tell you brutally. Eat less and move more. And I repeatedly sort of try to dispel that myth that you eat less and move more. But it comes down to this. Of course YOU have to change in your mind. You have to motivate yourself, you have to want to, you have to have support, but de facto.

Bard Kowalski
That is, it has to be your decision. In fact, it all starts with you.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, but de facto you need to sort out your plate and start moving more. And there's really no in it. I understand that there are a lot of factors that might not allow you to do that, but the fact of the matter is that in order to reduce weight, you need to reduce your calorie intake or find an activity that allows you to burn those calories so that you're taking in the right, right amount of calories, Leaving aside, of course, and excluding people who have various medical conditions that just cause increased weight.

Bard Kowalski
And tell me Monica, what are the most common mistakes patients make when dealing with doctors?

Monika Rachtan
They put doctors Very. What I was talking about, that the doctor is God, no. That I'm not allowed to ask, that I have no right, that I have to listen. It's that I always say that even 20 years ago it was the case that we had a market for doctors, just like you say that now we have a market for employees and there used to be a market for employers, in the same way we used to have a market for doctors, today we have a market for the patient. Well, because look, do you want to go to a urologist? Sorry, but you're a man. I would like to go to a gynaecologist. You want to go to a urologist. What are you doing? How do you want to go to the urologist?

Bard Kowalski
I make an appointment to see him.

Monika Rachtan
But, you know, at the beginning you do your research, you go to a portal like that, there's already a scuffle on that portal, but.

Bard Kowalski
Really? So it doesn't. So it's positioned like everything?

Monika Rachtan
Well there a lot of people have 5.0.

Bard Kowalski
So it isn't. It is a fake.

Monika Rachtan
You know what, well I am not a doctor and no representative of this company has ever come to me with an offer.

Bard Kowalski
They are afraid.

Monika Rachtan
So that I would be well positioned. On the other hand, doctors I know have told me about it being on a subscription basis, so. But let's go back to that urologist. Well, you know, you've got one. You want to go to a urologist, You go, you look online for reviews. If you don't look, you look on google. Well you see, this one has 4 stars, he has 5 stars. This one they write about that he's great, and this one they write about that he's hard to talk to. Well it's clear that you're going to choose that doctor who has good reviews, who has a nice office, who has a receptionist who will make you coffee and tea, obviously in the perspective of private sector care. But we have to realise that if I'm in XYZ hospital in a particular city and they're unpleasant there, I have the right to go to a hospital in another city and as if if it's nice there and it suits me, well I have to dare to do it. And I think that's such a fundamental mistake that people don't yet fully understand that they just have.

Bard Kowalski
And they're stuck with this one doctor that they've known for a hundred years. And you also have more experience because you meet these people, you talk to them, so you know yourself that to take that new knowledge from another doctor is worth it, right?

Monika Rachtan
Yeah, but you know, it could also be that he'll come up with some other research that needs to be done, he'll have some other approach to you, he'll be after some training and he'll say oh, a light went on in his head. It's cool, I was recently at a training in Portugal. They were talking about this and that. Or is that my patient? Exactly no. Also like taking that other advice is a really important thing and there's no need to be afraid of that. It's just.

Bard Kowalski
Which health topics need even more education.

Monika Rachtan
All.

Bard Kowalski
And discussion, the kind of discussion we have in society?

Monika Rachtan
You know, I think that's the kind of topic that I find very interesting and that I've started to address recently. It's the dignified death of cancer patients that we as a family often, because that patient is usually no longer deciding for themselves, because they're in such a state that they're not able to make rational decisions. Very often, the family is trying to look for yet another resort, and that is just tormenting that person. Because when you've got stage four cancer, when you've been given chemotherapy, you've been given radiotherapy, you've been given immunotherapy, you've been given molecularly targeted treatment and really nothing has helped. And yet you went somewhere abroad and they gave you some super therapy too. And then you go on to find that you've got this cancer again, you're malnourished, you weigh 50 kilos and you keep having recurring infections, you just can't cope anymore, and your family is looking for another therapy. And, you know, and it's such a bit of a torment to this patient in my opinion. I'm not talking about euthanasia here, to take away their oxygen and not help them any more, I just think that people like that should have the right to be treated for pain, they have the right to be treated in a way that allows them to pass away more gently.

Monika Rachtan
But that pushing that someone's therapy to the last day is a bit of not doing it for that patient anymore. It's just that family doing it a bit for themselves. That's my opinion and someone might not agree with it, but I would like to fight it a little bit because I think these people are just getting unnecessarily tired.

Bard Kowalski
'I associate 'Patient First' with dispelling myths. I associate Monika Rachtan with debunking medical myths. You talked about obesity. What are some other myths you would like to dispel? Which ones would you like to raise awareness of? It's our society. How it should be and so that they just don't blindly keep looking at these inventions and these things that don't make any sense at all.

Monika Rachtan
I invite you to watch the other 99 episodes of my programme and there is the answer to your question. Whereas you know what, I'm very nervous about all these issues related to, for example, us, the medications that we use for people who have lipid disorders. That there's this information out there that these statins just have some side effects that affect your quality of life. And that's kind of not really the case. I mean it's not true, and this knowledge is guarded, and often poor grannies are just sitting in the corridor of the GP, and one says to the other O you know, I've heard that if I take these statins, all my joints will go out and I won't be able to walk. And she says Oh Jesus, I'm taking them, I'm sure it's making me so sore. And grandma is sitting down, she weighs 80 kilos. Her only movement is walking, to this POZ where she has 20 steps. And she says her joints hurt from the statin, not from not moving. And I would like to say that not obesity has done a lot, but that as if when we have diseases, for example.

Bard Kowalski
This is my topic so you know very well that.

Monika Rachtan
The disease, osteoarthritis is most of the time it's kind of you know a vicious circle, that you're obese, you have osteoarthritis, well because you're putting too much weight on your knees. Then you stop moving because you're in pain. And the weight goes up. And that's the myth about these statins, that's what it is.

Bard Kowalski
So it is such a closed circle simply.

Monika Rachtan
This situation with the clinic and that just oh, my joints hurt, that's definitely from my dad. Well that's the easiest thing to say, and it's a crock with these statins. They really do work and more dangerous than statins can be stroke. And I also say it very often, because I also hear something like that. And okay, I'm going to eat these biscuits in general cool, why do I need this healthy diet? You have to die of something. And then I come out with a text like that. I say all right, all right. But if you have high cholesterol and you have a stroke, so what? I'm going to die. I say, but it's not always that nice. Sometimes you don't have time, for example, to go to a stroke unit, which we have a lot of in Poland. But it may happen, for example, that you will become what I call a bed-ridden patient, that is, a patient who will require 24-hour care from your family and for someone to walk around you all the time, and you will, for example, be conscious. And so what happens is that you have a stroke. So it's not always so great that you're going to die.

Monika Rachtan
And now maybe that's a bit of an exaggeration of what I said.

Bard Kowalski
But emphatic and actionable. I think that's probably how something you say to them in your face must work on people. Because sometimes if you just stroke them like that, and you brush the subject off like that, nobody notices. And nobody will hear it.

Monika Rachtan
So. so I'm horrible sometimes and sometimes I say such horrible things to people.

Bard Kowalski
You're not awful, you're honest, never confuse awful with honest.

Monika Rachtan
But you see, people don't get it.

Bard Kowalski
But you totally go with your truth, because that is the most important thing. Now a question for Monica Rachtan 'May we be well'. That's the name of my podcast.

Monika Rachtan
Yes.

Bard Kowalski
I would like to ask about mental health and the mental condition of men and women. What do you think, what stage are we at and what does it look like for Polish people?

Monika Rachtan
Badly, she was on my couch Natalia Przybysz said. You know, now in general all my friends are in therapy. If not in one, they're in another or several. And I think the pandemic has screwed everything up, because as I started to think about it, for example, I heard on the radio today that, for example, in 50% cases the jobs that are on the market right now are for land-based jobs, and the rest are remote jobs. And you know, because you also work remotely a little bit and I also work remotely a little bit. And it's like you're out of touch with people. And I catch myself that if I sit at home for two days and work, but remotely, no, that I get myself some inches, some different things, then I say Jesus, I crave people, I'm going to go to the Frog to talk to this woman, I'm going to ask her how she's doing, because I feel like there's something wrong with my head. And if you're asking about the distinction between men and women, there's a model in Poland in general that, you know, a guy is supposed to be strong as a rock, he's not allowed to cry.

Bard Kowalski
Unfortunately, this stereotype is still hard to dispel.

Monika Rachtan
He is supposed to be the head of the family. He cannot earn less than his wife. It is turbo aggravating for a guy when he has a woman and she starts earning. I mean it can't be turbo aggravating if he surrounds himself with a garland of people who will say Hey, man, your old lady earns more than you, What kind of guy are you? And then there are a lot more suicides among men than there are among women. So it's bloody hard. But you know, we do it to ourselves, Because just like we have the right to choose what doctor we go to, we have the right to choose who your husband is, we have the right to choose. If you have a toxic boss and you can't get away from him or her, today we have an employee market. Just change jobs and that's it. I know it's hard because people have family, responsibility, srutututut and so on, but we have a very powerful influence on where we are in life and when you feel that something bad is starting to happen to your head. When you feel like you don't want to get up and function in the morning, Then look around at who you have around you and shout Help!

Monika Rachtan
As if screaming for help at all is not a symptom of weakness. It's a symptom of mega courage, because weakness is you staying in that bed and sitting and counting those coffers on the ceiling. And stepping out of your comfort zone and saying listen, I've got a problem, I need your help, you know, even for those people it's cool that you trust them, that you told them as well I think.

Bard Kowalski
I was on your show myself and it was the first podcast where I ever spoke about my depression and my anxiety and all that. So I thank you very much too for finally being able to speak out about it. And the aftermath of that meeting we had some time ago. Some cool stuff was created that goes on and. So I'm very grateful to you. And tell me Monica, that's your recipe, your way of getting well, that's your well-being.

Monika Rachtan
And that's going to be an ugly word.

Bard Kowalski
We like ugly words.

Monika Rachtan
You know, I've been describing a lot of things lately as fuck it. And what happens in life is that certain things are out of your control and you can accept that. I mean you can't sit around, you know, splitting hairs, biting your nails, having ugly cuticles. You can, you really can. And you can say fuck it and move on. I, in my life, have experienced many times situations like this where my crown has fallen off. A couple of times, too, someone else trampled it. And you know, I took a drop. I glued the crown back on and I'm still wearing it. And you may not see it now, but you know very well that I have it on my head. And life in general is not easy and like you know, it's not always that everything comes to you, that everything is given to you, that you don't have to. I mean of course there are some people who have it that way in life, but usually if you want to achieve something, you have to make an effort. And I know the road I went through to sit here And I know how many tears I shed. But see, it worked out. So my advice to everyone who wants to succeed is that you just have to have a hard ass.

Monika Rachtan
And it really is.

Bard Kowalski
And loosen up a bit not. It's postponing and worrying all the time about this human opinion around you.

Monika Rachtan
I mean no, I totally get. I also often say in general that people say things about you and you can really be a great person. You can, I don't know, give them flowers, chocolates, and the lady in the register at the dentist's will say anyway, Well, but he had teeth, didn't he? And you don't have any influence on that, on what people say about you.

Bard Kowalski
They will always judge, they have judged and they will always judge.

Monika Rachtan
But wait, wait, because it's just like a wedding. It's not. That you're doing a wedding and it doesn't matter if your wedding costs 100,000 or 500,000 or 10,000. And so there's going to be an aunt who's come and who's going to say that. She could have chosen a different dress, so.

Bard Kowalski
The chop could have been fried more and the music could have been a bit louder. Yes, yes, this is normal, we will always be judged. Monika, I know you privately and I know your story. I know that you often talk to people about their stories, about what is, about them, about doctors, about illnesses. And I would like your viewers to get to know Monika, Monika Rachtan.

Monika Rachtan
But you probably don't want to ask what I'm sick with and whether I have STDs?

Bard Kowalski
Not at all. Not at all this time. But such a normal Monica, Where am I? Remember when I came to see you on the show? I said to you I'll be honest, I thought you were just a pompous lady with a flower from TV, who has no sense of humour at all and is just an inaccessible professor. Totally changed my opinion of you when I met you by the way of judging, but that's just the image I had of you. I may have also cast you as such a person. You are a professor, and I am a professor, and you are a super person. I would like people to get to know you a little bit in our conversation, because people only know you from. First of all, the patient. They know you from Instagram as much as you show them, and I know that your story is not easy. It's really bumpy. You talk about that crown and you often put it on and move on. You are a very inspiring woman and for women and for men. For us guys, you are an example. You are an example that it is possible. That despite many tough situations in life, you once again put on that crown, glue it together and move on.

Bard Kowalski
My first such more personal question. You are not only a journalist and host of the programme. "Patient First" and many different conferences. But you are a mum. You are a mum of a wonderful little girl with a disability. Tell me, is combining your work, your daily life with raising your daughter difficult?

Monika Rachtan
I thought you were going to ask if it was easy. You know what, I've been here a few times in the studio with my daughter and you know it's not easy. I. You can't prepare for it. And in general as I think to myself in general about it now I have such a flurry of thoughts. But as I think to myself, where are the girls who find out they have a disabled child, where do they end up professionally and how are they excluded. And it doesn't matter if she's graduating from pharmacy, medicine, if she's worked at Żabka before, if she's been on some great internship in the United States at all, suddenly she's pregnant and either while she's pregnant she gets such a boot in the face that she's going to have a sick child and she has to make all sorts of decisions in Poland.

Bard Kowalski
Do you remember that moment?

Monika Rachtan
You know what I found out already when my daughter was in the world. I had a beautiful pregnancy, everything was great and in general it was like nobody expected that something could go wrong. My daughter was born and I remember the first time. The first time I tried to go with her to her parents and I went alone, without my husband. And that was the moment where after a night that was very difficult, we actually ended up in hospital at night. And then after that, it kind of died all of that, that being a mum, because, you know, because you're kind of expecting pink, you've got a daughter is pink clothes. And I already had all these clothes bought and I had this lovely carousel bought for over the cot and I had all this stuff. And then she got sick and nobody asked me anymore what kind of sleepwear she was going to wear when she was five months old. I was the only one who went for a transcartilaginous ultrasound, had an MG with her, and then someone says to your face anyway that your baby has a rare disease and that in fact you'll probably never hear the word mum.

Monika Rachtan
And suddenly you're experiencing such grief because it's your healthy child who dies. And this mum Monica, who was supposed to be an awesome mum. We were supposed to do braids together and all sorts of other cool things that daughters of mothers do with their daughters. I don't really know, because like you know, I don't do, no, but like it all died and I had to like Well yeah, like someone dies. I just had to go through the mourning. But it wasn't easy. Is it easy for me to combine work and my daughter? I have a wonderful husband.

Bard Kowalski
I specifically and deliberately ask about your daughter's topic, because there are many mums who think it can't be done. They think that once a child is born with a disability, their world has collapsed. That they won't do anything professional anymore. And for me and for a lot of people who hear our podcast now, you are an example that it is possible, that you can do your own thing, that you can be fulfilled. I admire you very much and it's not that I'm sugarcoating it for you right now, it's just for me. I'm full of admiration because we saw your daughter together. I know it's not easy for you because this is not a girl you just let go to play alone in the playground, she is 100% of attentiveness all the time. So I would like you to give such a power nap to all these women and all these men that it is possible, because it is, I think very important. I admire you very much for that.

Monika Rachtan
I remember when my daughter went to kindergarten and I thought that was a childbearing mother in general. You don't know, you have a child with a disability And often people, for example, associate a disability that the child doesn't have an arm. But there are other disabilities, ones that affect everything in that child, just them, how they function, how they sleep, how they do things, how they do things. All these things just in a child with a rare disease can be slightly affected. And I remember when she went to this kindergarten. I thought to myself, what a mother. And then my husband drove her to the kindergarten and I went to bed and cried. And it wasn't because I was sad that I let her go, it was just like I told you, I was dying at one stage. And I thought to myself what the fuck am I supposed to do now that she's gone? I was still active all the time anyway. But you know, all of a sudden I didn't need her anymore, because she was taken care of there and I was alone at home. I could do something I couldn't.

Monika Rachtan
I was able to go and wash myself, for example. It was a great thing in general. I recommend it to people like I could blow dry my hair, for example, or I could go to the beautician.

Bard Kowalski
To be at least a little for yourself.

Monika Rachtan
And I would lie down and roar. And then my husband wonderful. After it was already hard with me, he made an appointment for me to go to a support, a psychologist to talk. And the lady told me that you have this kind of self-therapy. All in all, what you're telling me, you know what, No, we're probably not going to be here. I wouldn't really want to, because it's such a difficult subject and I get a bit too involved in it. Can you manage on your own? I say, what's a psychologist? No. And you know what, it gave me such strength that someone believed in what I didn't believe in myself, that it was possible after all. And that's when I got a new diamond glued to my crown again and I say let's fly with this I can manage at all. And like me. Sorry, but how do I hear. I don't want to judge anyone, but when I hear people who, for example, have a healthy child and they complain that they have to get up at seven o'clock in the morning to drive them to kindergarten, for me these are such problems that Jesus, I would give anything to get up at seven o'clock in the morning and drive my daughter to a normal kindergarten, from which she leaves with a laurel which she made herself, not which was made by Mrs Tosia or Zosia.

Monika Rachtan
And he's handing it to me for Mother's Day. It's girls like it's you who have to mobilise. You guys are the ones who have to give it too, because most of the time a girl is still left with it all, and if her husband doesn't support her, if he doesn't give that energy, he doesn't give normality either. You know, my husband and I go on dates in general and it's extra, because thanks to the fact that I'm working, thanks to the fact that I'm a taxpayer, thanks to the fact that I'm earning, because I'm not working for free, but it's like a paid job, I can afford to have a babysitter and to go on a date with my husband. And I don't really think you know. Someone will say A, because you work on the internet, because you make money on the internet, because it's a different world in general.

Bard Kowalski
It's a job like any other these days.

Monika Rachtan
It's a job like any other. Except that it's 24 hours.

Monika Rachtan
24 hours a day. On the other hand, I really firmly believe that just like we talked about how to lose weight, you know, you have to motivate yourself. In the same way, you have to look for solutions here. I know that in Poland, the solutions for parents of disabled children are lame, because there is no assistant, because not everyone has a grandmother who will take care of their child, but at least try. There are some jobs that you can do at home and even that you know you're doing something for someone, for example, I don't know, you're embracing someone's social media, you're doing it remotely.

Bard Kowalski
And elaborate on how it is in Poland? Just with people who have disabilities? Does our state support you? Rare diseases? Because your daughter has a rare disease. Is there support from our state?

Monika Rachtan
It doesn't mean yes, it means no and so different. The question is what support are you counting on? Because if you're happy with probably around 3,000-plus in benefit now and you're just sitting at home and you can't, I mean can you work? Well, but usually these people get this benefit. You know, there was a battle like that too. I'm sure you've heard that it was the parents of disabled children who fought for them to be able to work if they had that 3,000 with a piece. And see how that shows that they want to, that they see the possibility after all. However, when it comes to rare diseases, nothing has changed in Poland for many years. I remember all the time that one of the first interviews I did, probably 9 years ago, was about the situation of patients with rare diseases. I remember that at that time the president of Orphan was a certain man who is no longer with us, and he left, and I kept hearing about the same problems. I am still experiencing it now. So if there is a child with a disability and they are. These parents benefit from state medical care. If they can't afford private rehabilitation, private kindergarten, it's really hard for them.

Monika Rachtan
And the worst part is the diagnostic odyssey, which is how the first symptoms appear. And you see that something is wrong and damn it, there's nothing you can do to get a diagnosis for that child, Because you either have to have a dozen or tens of thousands of zloty to get yourself a private examination, or you have to wait five years in line so you can get that examination done. And now look, you have a child like me, who, for example, can suffocate at any moment, and what a total stress you live in, not having this test result. Because I, for example, when I got the results of the diagnostic tests, the genetic tests, that's in general, you know, my stress, apart from facing a huge tragedy and getting a boot in the face because I found out that, well, it's bad, but I also knew what to prepare for. And when you have information about when you can prepare, you automatically gain a little bit of that peace of mind. Because, well, because you have some mechanisms, some procedures for this life of yours, And the moment you don't know, and you wait, and you know, and you go after these doctors.

Monika Rachtan
Or maybe something has been released, well it's not like it's not humane.

Bard Kowalski
This is something from me to all of you. And I know, we talked about it recently in a private situation. Let us be empathetic to the other person. Let us always be empathetic even more to parents and to children with disabilities. Let's not look down on them, let's not point fingers at them. That is It is disgusting. I'm very sorry for the word, but for me it's awful how people can react to children with disabilities, react badly to another human being and it's already reprehensible in general. But everyone is equal, whether they have a disability or whether they are healthy, everyone is equal. And please, this is such an appeal to all of us. I know it touches you as much, you're already immune to it maybe, but being on a walk together I have to tell you we didn't talk about it. I'm back, I'm back to myself and I'm not frightened by disability for the most part. I think kids prodigies are something in general. I cherish that and your daughter who is adorable and all the children they have. Right.

Monika Rachtan
After my mother.

Bard Kowalski
After my mother, exactly

Bard Kowalski
And I adore all children. I adore them. Are they people with disabilities? I like. I love people simply. And with disabilities even more so. I have some more of that buoyancy and even more empathy turns on in me. It's awful how people react, how they look into that wheelchair, how they look at it. So I really bring to all of us. Let's look at the tip of our own nose and not the other person. And when we do look at the other person, let's look at them with great understanding.

Monika Rachtan
I would also like to make an observation of my own, because you know that we have no limits when it comes to my daughter and we do everything with her. We haven't flown yet, but I'm sure we will soon. On the other hand, we go on holiday with her normally, we go to the pool with her, we eat in restaurants all the time, because she loves to eat. And we sort of do these things often, for example, she squeals loudly and we often, for example, meet up. I once had a situation like that in general I thought, this woman just. Matilda squealed and this woman turned around and looked into the pram and I thought it was some kind of dog.

Bard Kowalski
God, I'm like Sparta. It's a good thing it didn't hit me on our walk, because I might not have made it to this podcast today.

Monika Rachtan
And, you know, I'm looking at her, at this chick in general, and I'm thinking what a type and I still, I had this moment just then that, you know, I was at such a stage that I didn't speak up yet, no, because now it's normally either I just make an ugly gesture or I ask if they want a photo and I say what's the fee for this photo. So I kind of totally have a sorry on these people, you're the ones who can't behave, but like we talked about this respect at the beginning, that you know, if you have respect for Salowa, you also have respect for other people. If you have respect for a child with a disability or a parent of a child with a disability, when I hear you do something with that child, why they're screaming so much, and I say well, please, please, please do something, if you've got a great idea for it, please, I'm waiting, I'll normally write it down in my notebook and I'll do it like that every day. But people, you know, people totally like can pass judgement, judgement and say all these just spit out all these things.

Monika Rachtan
But what I always say is stand in these shoes for a day and you'll see how cool it is.

Bard Kowalski
Don't judge, You don't know who is going through what, what story. Everyone is going through their story and really empathy and understanding for the other person is very important.

Monika Rachtan
I think this appeal that you just made shouldn't just be about people with disabilities. It should be about all of us, because like you talked about your depression and you know, you go out on stage just a super handsome guy, moves great, sings beautifully, you come off that stage and you might have a deep regret in your heart and not want to sign those autographs now at all, laugh and have drinks with people. Yes. And you have the right to do that. And I can't tell you because you always have to be such a laughing stock, no? Like I'm normally a normal person, and on the show I'm Monica Rachtan. Good morning, editor Monika Rachtan. Well, it's the same.

Bard Kowalski
But it is also your choice. Yes? It is also your choice. You like to separate these two spheres and these two parts of your life for yourself. And that's extra. And going back to your podcast.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, I am listening.

Bard Kowalski
Monica Do you have a plan for the next hundred episodes?

Monika Rachtan
You know what, well I'm definitely going to want to talk about health, but there's going to be a bit more about sex, because let's talk about pleasure and let's talk about how to make it more pleasurable. There will be a bit more about women. There's going to be a bit more about strong women, because I'd like to expose these strong women in such a way and communicate strongly to give courage to other girls. Because as much as I decided in today's episode to talk about my daughter for the first time, I know I'm hoping that one Marcysia out there will just step up and write to me and say Listen, thanks to you saying that, I got motivated. It's going to be a huge success for me. And also you know what, lately you know the thing about me is that I don't like to work with women and it's made me a certain place where I used to work, a so-called viper. Whereas lately I've been hitting on awesome babes and it's given me such strength and it's rubbed off on me a little bit.

Bard Kowalski
Because that's the kind of energy you let out and that's the kind of energy that comes to you.

Monika Rachtan
Do you think so?

Bard Kowalski
Exactly have you broken down that barrier and that wall that was built up by your other situations in life? When you've broken it down, that's when you attract that energy that you really need.

Monika Rachtan
So do you think there will be more diamonds on my crown?

Bard Kowalski
Until your neck hurts.

Monika Rachtan
Are you wishing me some kind of illness?

Bard Kowalski
Absolutely not. Even more of those diamonds on that crown and even more flash.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, yes yes.

Bard Kowalski
Monica, do you have your dream guest for future episodes?

Monika Rachtan
Yes, I have a guest like that, but it's not like anyone will know who it is at all. And I can't even say that at all, because I keep trying at this guest for him to come. But you know what, I have this general dream for my guests. I'd like them to be real and I'd like them in general to step out of their professors' shoes and out of all these, you know, their kind of, to show that they're human beings, because he's always been here at my place, he was here at my place once, Michal Zembala. This is a professor, the son of an eminent cardiac surgeon. If you haven't watched it, I recommend it. And he is always here.

Bard Kowalski
Monica. There were a hundred episodes.

Monika Rachtan
But Michael always tells me this story of how a patient calls him and says you know. I mean hello professor, they're on a first-name basis there, but he says well you know Michal, should I do some research? Well could you consult? And he says Oh, I'll be passing through Wrocław this and that day, so let's make an appointment at the petrol station, I'll drive up and take a look, and I drive up, I take these results and I say Listen, Stasiu, you need this, this and this, and I give him the result. He wants to pay me the money. I say, You must be crazy, I didn't do anything. I just looked at your score. And that's the kind of people I want in this programme, you know? Just the kind of nice ones, to be human to these patients. Because a doctor is a human being too. And just like a patient will only notice a human being in a doctor when that doctor makes himself known as a human being. And I think you know, in general, that doctors shop at Biedra. I've been doing a survey lately in general on this subject and who I meet.

Monika Rachtan
So I ask the doctors if they shop at Biedra. And they say they do in general. Imagine in general as if you understand that you can meet a doctor in Biedra?

Bard Kowalski
Well I have even met more than once. Well, not that I was playing doctor with someone at the Ladybird, but I did meet. Well, it's not a bad thing.

Monika Rachtan
But. Well, that's exactly the point.

Bard Kowalski
We are normalising, we are normalising. And tell me what advice you would give to your listeners to become more informed patients.

Monika Rachtan
First of all, no more content on the internet that is unproven. That is, if I'm telling you today that statins are great in general, I'm not a doctor. And it was kind of you know, more of an entertaining conversation. But you can replay the episode with Professor Banach, who is a professor, a real doctor. He was really sitting here, only there was a different couch, but he was a live person.

Bard Kowalski
You can feel his energy still yes.

Monika Rachtan
And not some hologram or you don't know who. And this is a man who has actually seen a patient before, who has graduated in medicine, and who has the right to tell you whether statins are good or bad. But no Mr George or other Monica at all should be your determinant of what is healthy and what is not, what is a disease and what is not a disease. So let's look for specialists who are really medical ladies nurses, ladies physiotherapists, gentlemen nurses. These are the people, and of course the doctors, who have the right to tell us what is healthy and what is not, not some content on the internet that you have found for yourself and which has no source. This is rubbish in general. This is rubbish. Even if it's written there you don't know what it is, it simply has no value. Medical knowledge only from the programme "Patient First".

Bard Kowalski
I would just listen, from now on. Added Rachtan myth busters Monica.

Bard Kowalski
First Patient. Monica We are coming to the end of this wonderful conversation. I, for one, am glad that people were able to get to know you from the side that I know you from, that you opened up a little bit about your private part. I hope we'll talk again sometime and you'll discover yourself even more, because it's quite an egg. Just the kind that uuu. So here I hope you got to know a little bit of her from that side. I, for one, am very grateful that I was able to swap places with you today.

Monika Rachtan
How did you even sit here?

Bard Kowalski
Well let me tell you a revelation. You're a little bit more comfortable on the couch as a guest, but yeah, it was actually very nice. And you know what's cool about this podcast of yours? That it's knowledge and that it's such real knowledge. And it's not the rubbish from social media, from those reels that people blindly look at.

Monika Rachtan
We also make reels.

Bard Kowalski
But we do these good reels that blindly people look into these, these myths that are on this internet and then they blindly believe it and sometimes they are even afraid to go to this doctor, to these doctors, So that's great. Monika So finally for all these people, what would you like to pass on to them? Monika Rachtan from First Patient for this 100th episode.

Monika Rachtan
That the hour a week you spend scrolling TikTok, you invest in yourself and learn something about your health. And that it's really worth it, because every one of us will be a patient one day. Me too. And it's good to have knowledge than not to have it. Because then you know how to navigate the system. And you might find that this doctor is not so scary after all either. Because if you're a patient, I'm not saying a claimant, but an educated patient, then you're a conversation partner and the doctor can't bend you. So it's worth coming out of a partner position and I think really an hour of TikTok less and an hour of a good, shall I say what kind of podcast about health. It really is an investment in your future.

Bard Kowalski
From me to you all. May we all be well. Always. My and your guest on the 100th episode of the "First, Patient" podcast Monika Rachtan. Ladies and gentlemen, a big round of applause, a big round of applause. Congratulations to you so much and you really inspire me to talk to people, to give cool knowledge, cool energy. Do as much as you can, even more, not another hundred but another 350 episodes, I wish you never run out of topics. I know that you still have in there, just listen, she has such a bundle of these different topics that I am sure you will not get bored, and she will never stop talking about it. Thank you very much.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you very much.

Bard Kowalski
Once again, all the best to you and the whole team. First of all, patient, because we don't see the whole team here, and behind that curtain there's a whole team of wonderful people tucked away, who with you are creating this super format.

Monika Rachtan
And I would also like to thank these people very much for believing in this project and for feeling the mission of health education, because, well, this is something cool, let's keep doing it together. I'd like to invite you to host the 200th episode of 'Po Pierwsze Pacjent'. We'll probably see you again on that couch.

Bard Kowalski
Monika Rachtan. "First the Patient.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you.

Bard Kowalski
Thank you very much.