Into the New Year without addictions. What can you do to truly say goodbye to addictions? Episode 32

Monika Rachtan
Christmas has passed, New Year's Eve has passed and many of us are starting to think about New Year's resolutions or are already implementing them. Do such resolutions make sense? Is starting something from 1 January a good way to become healthier, better? Well, that's what I'm going to talk about today with my guest Bartek Otto. A very warm welcome to you.

Bartosz Otto
Good morning.

Monika Rachtan
Well that's it Bartek. I was wondering how to introduce you, but I think I can say that you are a non-drinking alcoholic.

Bartosz Otto
Yes, you definitely talk about it openly. I am talking about it openly.

Monika Rachtan
We are here today in the programme because we want to bear witness and show that it is possible to live without addiction, that it is possible and that this life becomes cool because it has become cooler than the life that was when it was with you. Addiction It's not just alcohol, it's also drugs.

Bartosz Otto
Yes, definitely more cool. And I'll also go back to what you just said about talking about it openly. That's some form of it too. Telling the truth without clearing yourself of it all, because addiction is one big disease of lying and lying to everyone around you so much that we slowly start to believe the lies that we put together in our own heads and sort of. We keep going on and on about how, at least in my case, that's how it was, that it's everyone around me who's wrong, that there's no problem with me and they're the bad ones and the bad ones. I only go for my share or drink very culturally, and the rest are drug addicts, alcoholics. And do you lie so much? A lot of lying. There was so now there is a lot of truth.

Monika Rachtan
When you were accompanied by addiction, did you have just the kind of New Year's resolutions in you that you thought No well, this year I'm definitely going to stop drinking, stop taking drugs. I've been new since January. Me. Did it happen to you?

Bartosz Otto
This is the question I've been pondering for the longest time. Because let me tell you, I don't remember if I did. But after what's going on with me now, I do. I can't deal with the addiction to sweet and I just love it. I eat out of sight and often. Since the beginning of the month I'm starting to catch on to my new resolution to just not eat that sweet.

Monika Rachtan
So 24 will also be without with the resolve not to eat sweets.

Bartosz Otto
This is a good, good method. And listen, I think it is. I think there might have even been a few of those moments, that New Year's was such a resolution of mine to just change something. It was a bit of an addiction for me. I didn't really admit it to myself.

Monika Rachtan
The way I explained it to myself was that what is it?

Bartosz Otto
Well, you know what, it seemed to me that everything was fine, that I was actually functioning just like everyone else.

Monika Rachtan
That is, that everyone takes drugs.

Bartosz Otto
Well, that's the kind of society I had a bit around me. Or it's just you know what, it's also that we attract people to us as we are ourselves though. That's true. So I'm not saying that it was society that was to blame, but it was often me who initiated a lot of these different meetings or just opportunities to have a drink or to put on drugs simply.

Monika Rachtan
And did you do it alone?

Bartosz Otto
Definitely, definitely. It also developed, because up to a certain point, the people who were around me were able to finish at the right moment because of their responsibilities, which were the kids or work. And I wasn't able to. And then I would end up having those evenings alone or snacking on alcohol later on for heavy drugs like cocaine or its derivatives.

Monika Rachtan
And also certain periods in your life you simply don't remember.

Bartosz Otto
You know what, more and more things now as I'm in my 8th year of therapy since leaving therapy I'm being reminded of more and more things. But so definitely as I was meeting people from high school on my way and they were trying to remind me of some of the things we did together back in school, well it was coming to me that we actually did, and I completely don't remember it. So that period of that drugging or drinking blurs some of my memories a bit.

Monika Rachtan
That's not what I was asking. I was more asking Do you have moments where you remember doing something while in addiction and that after a week you didn't remember it at all. That the addiction was just taking away your memory, that it wasn't in control of your life and that afterwards it seemed to you that it wasn't there. That when you woke up the next day, three days from now, you had this hole? In general, what was it like on that Friday? I remember that it ended up being this and that, and then not that it was an hour two, that I had a blackout, it was just that I couldn't remember whole parts of like events.

Bartosz Otto
A very dangerous thing. The only thing I can think of is that I have travelled quite a bit driving under the influence of alcohol, also by car, and it happened that you did not remember that road. That's the thing. And that's the only thing that comes to my mind now, which is quite a strong message about me.

Monika Rachtan
You said you did cool things in high school and then addiction took those memories away. And how did it even start that alcohol came into your life? Well, because you know, we're those eighteen years old, first parties. Some people reach for it earlier, some people reach for it later. Most of us reach for that alcohol and we can handle it for the most part. So maybe at the beginning, when we're younger, we're more fascinated by it, more parties. But then we become adults, finish school, go to work, have some first relationships, a family. But somewhere it's going to work out, and in your case it didn't. And that alcohol, Drugs later dominated your life. They took away some part of your life. How did it start?

Bartosz Otto
Well, it started out as if it was planned. Those first two beers. I think it's a matter of wanting to be cool and wanting to join some kind of community and try this forbidden thing. Because we're sort of taught all the time that at least that's how it used to be, that alcohol and drugs are a very bad thing and we're going to feel very bad afterwards. And it turns out quite the opposite, that for that first period of time it's just fine. And then it gets to the point where what they all lied about is, I want more. So it started with two beers, but I never liked alcohol, as if that state after it never suited me. But I really liked smoking cannabis and I smoked cannabis from very small amounts.

Monika Rachtan
Which as it was you know, occasionally you'd go for a drink and this smoking thing would come up. Was it that you would get in the morning, you were having a worse day, you say and I'll have a smoke?

Bartosz Otto
No, It was also a form of focus to a certain settlement society. No. Well, and that's how it started, that she would go out with her friends somewhere after school. In the beginning, later on. Later before school too, and even during school. And instead of school. To smoke a joint? No.

Monika Rachtan
It was something that gave, apart from the fact that you were in this society.

Bartosz Otto
Gee, that's an interesting question. It was funny at the beginning. Well, because as we know cannabis loosens you up a bit and there's a good feeling at the very beginning like I think there is after all these substances, but like all intoxicants they're just addictive. And then we look for what was cool at the beginning. And it's often the case that we can no longer get that first one, that feeling we had the first time. Also, that was the purpose of meeting friends. As I said after the training sessions, just to have a smoke.

Monika Rachtan
But the cannabis didn't stop with you. Then there were harder and harder drugs.

Bartosz Otto
It all developed because it started with small amounts. Over the course of 9 years, the cannabis addiction progressed to the point where you would actually get up with the goal of smoking first thing in the morning and burn through, for example, the whole day or the whole weekend. Practically like people smoke cigarettes. Well, maybe there weren't such quantities here. But one day, the second, the third and the fourth, the fifth and so the whole day went by.

Monika Rachtan
And tell me at that time you were functioning normally in such a society, that you had a family, that you had, that you had some kind of job? What was happening to you at all?

Bartosz Otto
It was from the age of 15 to 24. More or less. I was smoking that marijuana. So that school period is still not a lot of responsibilities. And then those first years of work after that fourth or fifth year of smoking. You know what was encountered? I encountered cannabis everywhere there, because also in the working society after work there were people who liked to smoke both at one job and at the other. So it went alongside such normal, everyday life? No. Well, I don't think it's that strong. You know what, cannabis is also good in some ways for people who are seriously ill.

Monika Rachtan
Wait, wait, but therapeutic, not relaxation.

Bartosz Otto
Definitely not. But for a person who is fully healthy, well it can be that first, that kind of thing. The first such signal and encouragement to take the next step.

Monika Rachtan
You made it.

Bartosz Otto
That is, yes to knowing alcohol or possibly heavier drugs.

Monika Rachtan
That is, first you smoked joints, then you started drinking alcohol. It was two beers you said at the beginning, and at the end.

Bartosz Otto
It was already weekends spiked with alcohol from Friday to Sunday. And in fact all the time this alcohol was already pouring in at the end, so we had nine years of smoking. After that, there was a very smooth transition and also gradually this addiction progressed from small amounts to large ones. Three years of alcohol and then another two years of cocaine and its derivatives. And that first year on drugs. It was perfect. It was phenomenal. And I'll come back again, because those three years of drinking were also alongside work, because you were functioning normally. You already had a family. You would just go out at weekends to see friends and the alcohol was practically there all the time.

Monika Rachtan
But wait, wait. You left your family behind, went to meet your friends on Friday night and drank with them until Sunday.

Bartosz Otto
You know what's known is that it wasn't like that from the beginning. That family at the beginning was. And those weekends weren't so Friday to Sunday. That is, you went for a beer with your friends on Friday. But as the addiction progressed. There were problems in the family, arguments and the alcohol replaced the family. Later on, my relationship with my children's mother went sour. We lived together, then she moved out. So in the beginning, yes, it was definitely possible to function with the family alongside that alcohol. But later on, once the alcohol replaced everything, you didn't really have that family next to you anymore.

Monika Rachtan
Then reach for drugs.

Bartosz Otto
The next step was drugs. Those relationships I had with my partner were already like that. We hadn't been together for a long time. I was living alone. I was working and it even worked very well for me. The success in this work was already when I got to know drugs, especially heavy drugs, especially in that first year. Because cocaine works in such a way that in those first stages it helps you feel better.

Monika Rachtan
And it encouraged you to reach for it more often and more.

Bartosz Otto
I remember the words of a friend who said that everyone starts with small amounts and then they can already warn. He warned strongly that be careful, because everyone starts with small amounts and then it ends up like it always does.

Monika Rachtan
But. So you had people telling you come, come here from this horrible place, let's get out of it, You can live a normal life, yeah? Well because I understand that a colleague was sort of admonishing you, telling you mate, get over it. There were more people who gave you that support and you rejected them and kept going.

Bartosz Otto
Although like I said at the beginning, it's a lot of lying. And you kind of don't show outwardly all the things you do in the corners.

Monika Rachtan
That is, they did not know about it.

Bartosz Otto
Those closest to me didn't know for 15 years that I was doing something so powerfully destructive. And that I had a job that was related to. I was also a day-juice representative, so I could do it quietly so that no one would see.

Monika Rachtan
I don't understand. Tell me, what happened in your life that made you say no more? I'm quitting it. I'm starting a new life. I'm fighting for myself.

Bartosz Otto
Fear.

Monika Rachtan
What were you afraid of?

Bartosz Otto
It is often through this pain and suffering that we are able to change the fastest. This is my addiction. As it progressed, I had a lot of signals along the way that this was not the right direction, because once I was stopped under the influence of alcohol, then a second time I was stopped under the influence of alcohol, and the third time ended up with me having a rather dangerous-looking accident on my parents' estate. Fortunately, I was the only one involved. My car and a car parked just off to the side by the church. And the situation looked quite dramatic. I was moving in the lanes. My money fell off the passenger seat onto the windscreen wiper, and I tried to pick it up and hit the parked car under the church. My car was already totally destroyed. I got out of that car, saw what was happening. And then I thought it was bad luck. And now I say it was the best thing that could have happened. At the crossroads, a plainclothes policeman saw it, he also approached me. I laugh about it now, but in that case it wasn't very funny.

Bartosz Otto
He came up to me and asked if everything was OK. It occurred to me then, I think. What happened anyway? I rebuffed him unpleasantly. And the first thought that popped into my head was that I should probably run away from here. So I started to run away. Very quickly in situations like this. Roadside assistance appears, you don't know where from, but they always are.

Monika Rachtan
Another bummer.

Bartosz Otto
Well, I just don't know if it was bad luck. Also this policeman and the roadside assistance boy, due to the fact that I resisted and ran away. So they had to overpower me. They did it quite brutally. Also torn up. T-shirt, lots of blood. Handcuffed and laid on the ground. Well, the whole incident was seen by practically half the estate of my parents, who were coming out of church from Mass at 7pm on Saturday. The car was smashed. My father came to, to help a bit with all this wrapped company car, also such a big signal and information that. Hello? What's wrong with you? And what?

Monika Rachtan
The next day you got up in the morning and said, 'I don't do that anymore.

Bartosz Otto
They took me to the police station. They cannot give a statement due to the fact that I was under the influence of alcohol. It is also possible that they let me go because the police officer had to overpower me. Maybe they also didn't want to make too much trouble for themselves. And the first thing I did was like this. Beaten up and torn up. So I called where I needed to be and continued my fun. Two more days. Also. A man in this severe state of addiction. You could say that he completely misses the signals that are evident to me. And it's so strong. Our hard to cut off. I also don't want to let you go until two days later when I woke up at my parents' house. Well, I got the information from my father. And I think that was the key thing, that well man, you either go to rehab or you get locked up. Me.

Monika Rachtan
I was scared at the time.

Bartosz Otto
And that was the fear. That was the fear.

Monika Rachtan
What was it like in rehab?

Bartosz Otto
Perfect. Oooo yes! Well I'll tell you honestly, that is such a very unpleasant name for a place I've been. And nicely it could be called therapy. Because actually when a person wants to make themselves right there. It has all the tools to make it happen. Because we were in a beautiful place with a pond in the middle, with a place to run, with a gym, with two palaces, where there were classes 3 times a week, 3 times a day themed, which allowed us to learn about the mechanisms of the whole disease. They gave you food to eat, they gave you somewhere to sleep and you could take care of yourself for six weeks and just be in a place. Which gives you security and to be in a place that allows you to learn. From A to Z. What are you supposed to do? Once you're in, once that protective dome is gone, once. Well, once the thing that gave you the most trouble will be widely available.

Monika Rachtan
Don't tell me, did someone support you during this therapy? Or more to the point, did you know that when you went home, there would be someone there waiting for you to give you that support? Someone who will be that protective umbrella for you when that centre has just gone? There won't be this rehab, you'll just have to go back to your normal life.

Bartosz Otto
The people closest to me were my parents, of course, and my sister, and my mother, and my aunt, and my grandmother, in other words this immediate family. These were the people I could actually always count on. I had it so that, for example, I very much expected support from the people I spent time with at the time. When it came to friends, that is.

Monika Rachtan
Those who drank and took drugs with you.

Bartosz Otto
That's right. And now how to put it together?

Monika Rachtan
It's a bit strange.

Bartosz Otto
A bit strange, no? And I was expecting it and even waiting for these people to help me. Only how are they supposed to do it? Well, exactly. Also the immediate family. And then, of course, in therapy, everything is arranged so that when you leave, after those six weeks, you yourself decide to continue therapy already in your own town, to start going to AA groups, to start going to support groups and to change the society of the people you've been with. To a different society that does. I won't say the same things, but which normally functions, goes away together and just sober up together side by side. Also, therapy is there for us to learn all these possibilities of healing ourselves, so to speak, of getting out. On the right path.

Monika Rachtan
Once you understood what was going on with you in general, because I think when you came back from that rehab, you were already reasonably aware of what had been going on in general for the last few years. And when you looked into the face, into the eyes of your mum, your dad, your dad who was probably so terribly ashamed of you, when when he came and saw your car and those neighbours were looking at him coming out of church Were you ashamed of them? Were you stupid in front of them?

Bartosz Otto
You know what, I don't know, but I know one thing that has come to me still in therapy. This is a very interesting phenomenon. I often give as an example. That you're sitting for the third, fourth week sober. And it comes to you that this is. The first period since the last, in my case 15 years. The first period of six weeks where you are actually sober all the time. And for 15 years. Practically week in, week out, weekend in, weekend out or later on you've just been on the rave every day. I. And that's the kind of thing that got to me there. Was I ashamed? You know what, I don't know. I don't know, I don't remember. I think. I think not. I think. Shame is such a feeling that is quite strong. And they also teach in therapy to put the brakes on those feelings that don't make us feel good. That we should do everything we can to make that feeling of well-being the best it can be. I also think that therapy prepared me enough so that I didn't feel this shame. Also, my father visited me.

Bartosz Otto
I also had contact with my family all the time for what 6 weeks did not. Well they kind of knew what was going on. You know, they see the direction it's sounding. I had absolutely no idea that it was going to end like that. Although I was getting a lot of signals.

Monika Rachtan
And tell me from your perspective, which is worse? Drugs? Alcohol?

Bartosz Otto
This is a replacement. Do not classify it in any way. I think. Every drug addict is an alcoholic and vice versa. Not every alcoholic is a drug addict because. it is just a substance. What difference does it make what kind of substance?

Monika Rachtan
You're on the good side of power now. You probably feel a lot better than you did in the first place. How long have you been sober?

Bartosz Otto
Well, that's a very difficult question. Hey, So this one of mine is an exit from therapy. It occurred on 30 September 2016. She lasted six weeks, so we would have had an eighth year. Right? It's just that they also teach it very strongly, that sometimes on this path they don't have to at all, but there can be some misdemeanours, falls, stumbles.

Monika Rachtan
Of course you had one.

Bartosz Otto
Of course there have been, there have been those in therapy. They teach that and they try really hard to communicate that, that even once you get on this good path, these stumbles can just happen. It's just often the case that when everything is going well. We don't see certain things, and it is only when we fall a little that we can verify our actions and get back on the right track. Such stumbling blocks also happened to me on my eight-year path of sobriety, but I was perfectly prepared to deal with them. And there are groups, and there are. What has helped me a lot in difficult moments is that I have two people from the Alcoholics Anonymous Community.

Monika Rachtan
And you still belong to it, don't you?

Bartosz Otto
I continue to belong to it, but I don't attend meetings regularly, but only and only when I actually feel I need it. I don't know if this is the right direction, but it's like everyone has to from different places to themselves. To choose things that are right for them. Not everyone has to go down the same path. But I do keep in touch with people from the community and through social media we see each other even if only on these phone calls. Also, I know very well what to do when the feeling arises that one would like to go back possibly. To stray. And I know perfectly well what to do at the moment when one possibly just happens to fall back on. Also that phone call to a friend. Well, what do you mean? This is a very important thing. Because how is it that the plumber understands the plumber perfectly? A painter and a painter, when they enter a room, see exactly what they can do there, they also exchange certain terminology. Everyone understands each other perfectly when talking to someone in their own trade. If I want to communicate to you certain processes that are going on in me, you will look at me and you may say that you do not understand me at all and that there is something wrong with me.

Bartosz Otto
And the other person knows exactly what I'm talking about because she's probably already been through it too. She was exactly. And sometimes the shedding. Those emotions inside. Telling someone about it. One day, the next day the third day the fourth day it just makes it pass. And that's really the key thing. In the same way you can benefit from the meetings, you can benefit from things that have helped you before, which is going back to therapy. There are these tools that they teach in therapy really, really several.

Monika Rachtan
But it's also remarkable that you form such a support group that shows this mutual help to each other and that you are just there for each other. That is amazing.

Bartosz Otto
This is crucial. This is a society that. It simply allows until you find your society somewhere that also doesn't drink, for example. In my case it's both the gym and the walruses. Yes, this society of sober people is the perfect place to cope. To cope.

Monika Rachtan
We said to each other before we entered the vision that there is such a trend at the moment to be sober. The amount, the number, in general the amount of drinks that are zero. Nowadays it's kind of a phenomenon in general, because we can go to a party, have a beer, but we don't have to drink alcohol at all. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who say. For me, a healthy lifestyle is important. But it's not just eating healthy. It's not just the gym or running or cycling or any other sport, but they say zero alcohol, zero thinking it's good.

Bartosz Otto
I think it's a growing trend because in the societies I now turn next to gyms and next to walruses more and more. More often I hear when I meet a new person on my path that they just don't drink. And that is a very interesting phenomenon. No. More and more gyms are being built. More and more are being created. Different initiatives related to sport. And yet these are people who, as you said earlier, just don't drink and want to live a healthy lifestyle.

Monika Rachtan
So it's also not the case that such people, who used to face some kind of addiction, nevertheless find it easier to get into such a routine of sport that it compensates them for the addiction they had to end and, for example, they start to become dangerously addicted to running or whatever, because you can get addicted to that too.

Bartosz Otto
Yes, I think we switch a bit, but why is that? We are looking for those dopamine spikes, things that give us great pleasure, just as our brains had it encoded that this pleasure was previously given by drugs or alcohol, so now I get great pleasure from waking up very early in the morning and doing a workout as early as possible. And these workouts or this walrushing also cause very big dopamine spikes. Just which is cool and how would that compare? Because alcohol causes a dopamine spike and a very big downward slide. Again, we have to take some further dose of ethanol or drugs to feel good again, but then our mood goes downhill very strongly. And walrting or at least gym sports or running only cause these spikes. Well, and we don't drop so low after that physical effort or walrushing, but we can keep climbing up, sort of feel better, look better. So I think that's a very good exchange. And you were still talking about those light bulbs? Well, that's the story we heard in therapy, that there's already such a hard-coded trace in the head.

Bartosz Otto
At a certain level of addiction, that a boy who switched from drinking percentage alcohol to drinking alcohol such as beer, which has 0%, changed absolutely nothing, because he felt the same way after drinking zero alcohol. Why? Because that whole process, all those mechanisms, the movement of his hand, the place where he does it, opening that bottle caused chemical processes to be produced in his head anyway, which caused him to just feel on the raunch. Also it's so firmly encoded in our head that it's very hard.

Monika Rachtan
It's very interesting what you're talking about, but on the other hand I think it's nevertheless a very good alternative for people who. You know, think to yourself, if you had access to beer 0 or gin 0 and you were drinking it when you had the accident, because you would be a conscious driver who came to the event and you know you were drinking 0 well you would win a lot. Not that. That the very people who make that decision, that even if. Because that's how it is in Poland, that's how you see it in Italy you go, everyone drinks wine there. After all, there is nothing wrong with that. You go to France just like these people meet and they go to lunch together for dinner. And they drink wine. There's nothing wrong with that, but when two people meet and one is aware and says Listen, you want to, then drink this wine quietly, but I'm e.g. a car or I don't want to drink alcohol and I'll go for 0. Well, that's some solution and in my opinion a very good one. Of course, I'm not saying the best and greatest in the world, but it replaces something that could lead to some kind of crisis, some kind of disaster.

Monika Rachtan
So I'm actually very much rooting for such products, but that's my private, personal opinion. I was also thinking about this. How do people react when you say you don't drink? And what do you say next? After the fact that I don't drink? Because when you enter a new company, let's say you go to a company party, you meet a colleague from the branch in Gdansk, in Katowice, wherever, and usually such company parties are quite heavily spiked with alcohol. So you walk into an unfamiliar environment and people ask you not just wine, beer, vodka? What do you drink? What do you answer?

Bartosz Otto
You know what, the thing about me is that I just don't go to places like that. Because like I told you before, my society, which my not the people I'm spending time with at the moment, they just don't drink. And like I said that we often attract what we feel inside and who we are, there are actually people in my path of life who just don't drink. And if I'm calling someone and offering to spend time together, I'm mostly calling people who also don't drink. But there's a great answer that closes all the doors. Well, because. Like we don't want to lie. That is, the kind of answers that. Whether I'm sick or not I don't know. I don't know what else to say there. Often they don't work because the other person will then find an opportunity to get us to drink anyway.

Monika Rachtan
What do you mean you won't have a drink with me? Come on, what are you saying?

Bartosz Otto
So a very cool answer is I just don't feel like it.

Monika Rachtan
Well, it's so extinguishing.

Bartosz Otto
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And that's what I heard on a podcast as well. You can also answer much more irritatingly and say I don't need to.

Monika Rachtan
Hahahahahaha, but.

Bartosz Otto
It's already.

Bartosz Otto
Not sure with what reaction. Now it is.

Bartosz Otto
I don't feel like it. I really don't. It closes all the doors and sort of doesn't cause this confrontation. On the other hand, no. But what? A change of environment though.

Monika Rachtan
That's very open about your addiction. Do you still call yourself an alcoholic at all? Yes, in my head.

Bartosz Otto
Now again, this may sound a bit, a bit strange, because at the meetings and in the AA Community, however, it is an admission. The first thing is to admit that you are actually ill, that you are an alcoholic or a drug addict. I even had it written on my Facebook wall for a period of time, right in the middle, that I define myself as such. I only went along with it for a period of time, until I heard that kind of feedback again on a podcast that. Well, because how do you look at me and talk to me? Do I look like a drug addict or an alcoholic?

Monika Rachtan
Rather not. Well, you know.

Bartosz Otto
Exactly. So it's hard to identify with that, isn't it? Also I've adopted the mindset that I can become him back at any time when I reach for the substance. Well, but I don't feel it at the moment as we speak. That is to say, if we reach back for a substance that addicts us big time, we are actually back to our old addictions and we can call ourselves that. But still, what we say to ourselves in our head is what we record. What we write to ourselves somewhere is often later, later in us and that's how we feel. Me for today. I don't want to feel like an alcoholic or a drug addict.

Monika Rachtan
What would you say to people who. From the new year want to change their lives. Maybe I don't mean such an extreme situation as you were in, because it was already very difficult, but we show it to bear witness that even from such a difficult situation it is possible to get out. What would you say to such people who want to get out of whatever addiction they have since the new year, be it pipes, alcohol, phone addiction or sex addiction We are addicted to different things.

Bartosz Otto
Well, because if you do it man's way and just like the last time. It probably won't work out. That is, it will be the same as before. Which means you have to do things differently in the end. And often that different. Is to simply listen to the person. Someone who has already been through it and who has experience of it. That's right.

Monika Rachtan
Because you talk a lot about your past life and this one. Now you are talking publicly. You're on my show, so you're talking very publicly about what this problem has been like for you. What does that give you?

Bartosz Otto
Well, I mentioned at the beginning that this is a form of purification. The whole thing. The whole, the whole of alcoholism is one big lie. And now I don't want to lie anymore, because even. Sometimes I catch myself going for coffee and cake. I won't eat that cake with my friends, I'll eat it alone later.

Bartosz Otto
Hahahahahaha. Yes.

Bartosz Otto
It's just that this cake doesn't hurt me much anymore, i.e. it only hurts me in the way that it doesn't give me the opportunity to get into the physical shape he wanted. Well, but I think people would like to listen not to celebrities. Just normal people who have dealt with something in their lives. Well, because the stars are far away from us. Yes, that's true and we don't have access to them.

Monika Rachtan
Also, you know, often these stories are just a product of the fact that it's often the case that this is some image, some avatar of this person, and what is really there is somewhere else. Well, but tell me at the end already, what are you doing in life now? How has your life turned out? Because I hope it has. What do you do for a living? What are your passions? Apart from sport and walrting. Maybe you do something else interesting?

Bartosz Otto
That's right. I'm developing into heavily into the sport now. And so right from therapy, thanks to my sister, I ended up in such a tiny gym at the beginning, where there were only electric machines. Then, after two years, I went to a normal gym, then another year and I knew cold for three years. Now I was at the level of a mentee. When it comes to working on myself in the gym, I'm now going one step further and doing a coaching course so that I can now pass on this knowledge. It is this mega passion of mine. I love the gym, I love this place and in this direction.

Monika Rachtan
And it's cold, Because it is. I've already talked about the fact that it's the beginning of the year, The holidays are coming up. So what exactly is it about the cold for you?

Bartosz Otto
Well, you know what, I switch it up a bit. I've swapped that alcohol for that cold, because that cold is so much of a boost to dopamine and the feeling of well-being throughout the day that going into that kind of icy water literally for a moment. I don't mean laughing at myself, but really treating that water as such. The big stimulus to wake up the whole body causes such amazing processes inside that all those hormones of ours start going crazy after contact with that cold water. And this level of wellbeing and energy really lasts throughout the day for up to several hours also. As of today, I don't know of a thing that is free and gives so many benefits as just cold. No?

Monika Rachtan
Well, I just asked about this cold, because my guest was also Valerian Romanowski. Do you guys form such a community of the cold like?

Bartosz Otto
Yes, I think the whole walrus society from all over Poland. It is one big family. And you can learn a lot from these people in particular, who enjoy the cold without drinking, and go down that proper life path.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you so much for this truth you have presented to us today. It's an amazing talk. I hope it will mobilise our audience to maybe make small, bigger New Year's resolutions. But if you are actually facing a problem, a serious problem, you have a living testimony here that it is possible to get out of even the most difficult ones. Is the New Year a good time to do that? It is always a good time to change things for the better. But if you have decided to do it from January onwards, I hope that with our programme we have helped you to persevere in those resolutions. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Thank you for your attention.