Child over-predation - the consequences of digital everyday life. Episode 82

Monika Rachtan
Good morning. Monika Rachtan I would like to welcome you to another episode of the programme First Patient. It turns out that 75% Germans would like to ban or restrict access to social media for children and young people. Is this idea a good one? This is what I will be discussing today with Artur Wisniewski, MD, who is a psychiatrist. Good morning, doctor. A warm welcome to you.

Artur Wisniewski
Good morning, you are most welcome. I am also pleased to see that you are taking up such a topic. Talks have started by other countries, we too will hopefully join in, I think for the time being, the debate in general about what to do about it, because certainly something needs to be done about it. About whether to ban it. Well I think we have time to talk, but it's not more about my personal opinion, it's more about such professional and rational reports about how it works, what it works for and why we should do it at all. Right?

Monika Rachtan
Looking at the children you work with, because you are a psychiatrist who deals with children and adolescents, I wonder if you see that this problem is significant, that social media is the factor that influences disorders in children.

Artur Wisniewski
It's certainly the case that it's something that exists in our kids' lives on a day-to-day basis at all, and it's not inseparable from those in different situations. I remember, for example, a patient who had to check notifications every now and then in the office because she hadn't turned her phone off. When I started ticking off notifications for myself there, I think it was about 17 or so times during that one session of ours that she was able to look, glance, tick something off there, even sometimes she tried to write something else. That's kind of it. And the conversation is not long. And this bit of time The young man was already bombarded with notifications all the time, firstly, and secondly, he had such a need to react, though.

Monika Rachtan
Looking at how children's and young people's brains work, what changes and what consequences of this distraction, this constant checking, this constant being stimulated by this social media, all these annoyances that children encounter on social media. What consequences can this have directly on their brains?

Artur Wisniewski
There are certainly a lot of different changes going on, and I think first and foremost such a basic one. These are all sorts of problems with concentration and with memory. We have what psychologists and psychiatrists call executive functions, these different kinds of elements of our memory and concentration, which determine whether we learn easily, whether we concentrate easily on something, whether we can filter stimuli, whether we can assimilate different information. And the constant bombardment of information and use of media screens can disrupt this. It's not always just a negative effect, of course, because there's some older research that people who played computer games more often and more often have better reflexes, right?

Monika Rachtan
Well, if someone is planning to be a professional driver, this is certainly an important feature. But I don't think it's so useful if we're looking at the negative effects of playing computer games. I also thought about the fact that, if we had met 10 years ago, I wouldn't have asked him about social media, because it was such a harmless adversary, like our class, where we met old friends. And I don't think any of us thought what it could all turn into, that social media would actually become a money-making machine for big companies at our expense. And how we can become addicted to food. How we can become addicted to shopping.

Artur Wisniewski
Gambling, from sex, from various other things, such behavioural, because we are talking here about these behavioural addictions. It is also the use of social media that in some cases can take on the characteristics of addiction, although formally in the kind of international classification that we use, the ICD or DSM, there is no such thing as social media addiction. Maybe it is because we are not keeping up with the classification of these problems, for example? Well, there is gambling addiction. Sometimes we use a term like other non-specific types of addiction, where we just load this kind of diagnosis, and it turns out that like this mechanism is very similar to behavioural addictions to other things or situations. And the research is different, the research is from the last few years, because it's really only in the last few years that a little bit of something has appeared, as I was looking, preparing for this talk, that there is some data, there is, yes, but it's from the last few years.

Monika Rachtan
Previously, we didn't have what that data looked like, because you said the doctor about this data on gamers, people who play computer games. And do we have data that shows how these brains of ours change when we use social media as intensively as we do today?

Artur Wisniewski
If we overdo it, it's also hard to know how and where the limit is, because these things depend more on various other factors that define addiction. But if it's excessive, then the brain, especially a growing brain like that, is not able to mature in the way it should. Imagine that the teenage brain is such a city constantly under construction, right? And those streets, all the motorways and motorways are overloaded with cars. There are constant traffic jams. Those cars are a rush of information. Such a city is difficult to build, isn't it? If we have too many trucks and everything is congested, then there is no way to build new roads there. And new kinds of neuronal connections are what it takes for the brain to develop properly.

Monika Rachtan
That is, it turns out that this brain of kids entering adulthood at the age of 18 is a little different to the brains of people who didn't have access to social media 20 years ago. It's not better, it's worse because.

Artur Wisniewski
I don't know if it can be called worse. Because if we are in a world that goes and evolves in a certain direction, then perhaps this form of assimilating or segregating information will be more beneficial for some people. But surely we already know that a person who is overstimulated and bombarded is worse at thinking and concentrating, is also worse at controlling his emotions, right?

Monika Rachtan
And are you thinking doctor in the context of social media? Back to the topic of addictions. Isn't it also a little bit that social media is a tool to pursue one's addictions? Because, for example, addiction to sex, addiction to pornography On social media we do it a bit quietly. Nobody sees it. Yes, I lock myself in my social media world and there I access this addiction really without any control and without being judged.

Artur Wisniewski
We all have a certain tendency to get addicted or dependent. And it depends on how much these stimuli come at us, bombard us, doesn't it? The companies, the big corporations that have all this social media behind them, they know very well how their algorithms stimulate us by stimulating us. Dopamine, dopamine, which is kind of our happiness hormone, but also to transmit information and amplify signals to serve. That is, each of us reacts to this dopamine somehow. Social media have such algorithms that dopamine will be constantly stimulated, bombarded, and we become addicted to it. We need that stimulation. It's very nice, it's cool, and we quickly fall into that kind of addiction. So it's not quite the case that the media encourage us to become addicted quietly. The media simply, if abused, can addict anyone. There are no exceptions here. It's just that it's such a system that, for marketing reasons among others, aims to get as many scrolling, watching, looking at it, checking it out as possible, and as a result.

Monika Rachtan
Spend as much money as possible because it.

Artur Wisniewski
They are targeting the market, aiming to get as many views as possible. And behind that, of course, is money.

Monika Rachtan
And how would you respond to information, reports that say that a large proportion of the population is on the autism spectrum in some way? I've just been looking at statements from researchers on this and autism and ADHD in general has become very trendy online, on social media. Now being on the spectrum. Now having ADHD is not talked about on Instagram. You know, you don't understand my success because I have this ADHD and I'm on the autism spectrum. And I complete tasks differently than all normal people. That's why I'm so popular here on insta, on insta I'm popular. How does your doctor relate as a clinician?

Artur Wisniewski
Researcher Clinical data tells us that this number of diagnoses when it comes to autism or autism spectrum disorders, looking more broadly and ADHD-related attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or both, which together we call so-called neurodevelopmental. Whether. This is a certain neurotypicality. Their frequency is not changing dramatically at all. More or less, statistics show that it is constant. What is changing is our ability to recognise and catch quickly all those people who actually have it. Such population-based studies have always said that it is about 10% of the population that may have some features of neuro atypicality. It's a fixed trait that's somewhere in the population, has been there. Social media, on the other hand, can turn up the traits.

Monika Rachtan
Well. And now the question is whether such people will be more exposed? For such there will be, there will be addictions.

Artur Wisniewski
Pandemic showed this, when we were condemned to this kind of online contact, when we were confined within four walls, it was the teenagers who have spectrum disorders who were the most sprinkled. It was only the first time that it became apparent that they had them at all, because there was a very big problem with going back to school, with making interactions, with feeling excluded, with not being able to behave. Online versus offline. When there is a live person, all of a sudden you find that they don't have the competence to cope.

Monika Rachtan
And is cutting off social media to children of young people advised against?

Artur Wisniewski
Discouraged. I say advise against it straight away. I am not going to be an explorer here, I think, that if we would try to cut something off, we have to give something in return, right? Somewhere it comes from that a person is running away there or looking there. Obviously the media is tempting and let's try to resist that. It's a bit like, I don't know, In a confectionery shop we're giving lessons in healthy eating and persuading kids not to eat anything. And here they're giving cookies everywhere, candy for free. Yes, And of course we would like them to eat healthy. And we talk about what's harmful, that sweets are unhealthy. That's exactly how it is with the media. We're surrounded by it around us and we're saying how awful it is, how we shouldn't do it, right? Also I wouldn't use or urge to ban it. Yes, rather to use it in a rational way. And first of all I as a psychiatrist and psychotherapist always need to know why this is happening. What caused this young person to choose this and not that way of contacting people, of spending leisure time? Not just because it is the fashion.

Artur Wisniewski
That's right.

Monika Rachtan
Because there is always that cause somewhere and social media can do good things too. Ladies and gentlemen, it is also our programme that is on social media. I would.

Artur Wisniewski
Here using social media anyway.

Monika Rachtan
The point is to also use these media for good things, because in the programme, for example, we are trying to educate, above all we are fighting disinformation and we want to cover the false content that is created by various people on the Internet with valuable educational content.

Artur Wisniewski
It's just to see if our audience in terms of children can appreciate and choose what is the right content, what is fake news and what is real news.

Monika Rachtan
And who should work to ensure that these children are able to distinguish between the two?

Artur Wisniewski
Adults adults say not just parents, because I don't want to be blaming parents, because I'm a parent myself and I see how my kids can or can't use, right? Obviously it's important to set some boundaries, to set some limits, to discuss with the child in general what's going on, why it's not so cool, right? But also to provide him with, for example, some other entertainment or to be alone with him during that time when we don't want him to sit with his mobile phone, right? And we give an example of a completely different one often.

Monika Rachtan
I am glad that the doctor is on my programme, because child psychiatry in Poland is currently going through a major crisis related to and reform, but also related to staff shortages. Because I once wanted to, I was doing some journalistic research and I decided to call one centre in the city where I live, which is in Wrocław, and ask for an appointment with a child psychiatrist at the NFZ.

Artur Wisniewski
I heard a few months.

Monika Rachtan
Not three years I heard it.

Artur Wisniewski
It may have improved a little. A couple of months is for the first visit to a psychologist.

Monika Rachtan
Oh, right, so there's a real shortage of these child psychiatrists and it's quite a significant and serious problem. And the problem is also even more serious, significant, because there are more and more children with different problems. Do parents Go with their child to a psychiatrist. Do they see it as something shameful? How do they approach it.

Artur Wisniewski
In Warsaw, it doesn't look like that at all. Well, anyway, if they were so scared, there wouldn't be such queues. And often teenagers want to do it themselves, don't they? They see that something is going on, that they're not coping, right? And they ask their parents that they would like to talk to a professional person about it though. More often, of course, they go to a psychologist, then to a therapist, possibly to therapy.

Monika Rachtan
But then the therapist says he can't cope anymore.

Artur Wisniewski
The therapist sees that we cannot do without a psychiatrist. Of course, a psychiatrist is very much needed, if only to make a diagnosis that makes it clear to us what to treat and whether or not to use medication. Although we don't use that much medication with children.

Monika Rachtan
Doctor, and what is a child psychiatric hospital like in Poland? Because today we also have huge myths about it and various stories on the internet. And since we are fighting against misinformation, I would like to ask whether it is really so bad that these children are lying in corridors, on some mattresses and absolutely the conditions are unacceptable.

Artur Wisniewski
I would say that it works in waves. There are periods when there are free places, and there are situations when there are so many children that there really aren't enough beds, the number of beds is insufficient, isn't it? But in parallel, because I've already talked about reform, there's now this idea that the whole of psychiatry should be changed so that you don't have to go straight into hospital. It's true that there's outpatient care, there are day wards and only then, if that doesn't work, there are wards where you're 24/7 and you're locked in, right? I think that for situations like this, when it's still a bit too little to just go to therapy and there's not something going on that's threatening a person's life and health, a day ward is enough. It's the kind of hospital where you're in the morning, you have school lessons most of the time, and it would be good to have those lessons there too, so you don't fall out, because you're there for a few months, you have therapy, you have classes, you have contact with the group.

Artur Wisniewski
Therapy is individual, group and there this treatment takes place in such a comprehensive way, because of course parents also participate or should participate, right? Parents have their group meetings with the psychologist individually or as a family. Right? And when we talk about the hospital, it's this good form of hospital. I imagine it like that, but I also know of places where it looks like that.

Monika Rachtan
I hope the kids are watching as well. I hope they are watching. I don't want you.

Artur Wisniewski
Encourage hospital.

Monika Rachtan
And I would just like to talk about this and take it a step further and ask, what does such a Day for a child from a psychiatric hospital look like? How does it even take place? Because I think also the fact that we are afraid of this place. Do you know what the association is? He sent his child to a psychiatric hospital. Well, what kind of parent in general? That child is definitely going to be tied up there. He's injected with something and he's going to lie there like a vegetable. Is that really the reality? I arrive with my daughter at the psychiatric hospital. What happens?

Artur Wisniewski
First of all, the doctor examines her first and collects a history, information, what is going on from the child himself, i.e. from your daughter, For example, And in addition to that, he talks carefully with the parent, tries to find out what is going on, how long and what the problems are, what you cope with, what you don't, what have you done so far, what were the things that helped and what didn't help? Has there already been treatment somewhere e.g. in a counselling centre? Or where did it suddenly come from. If it is an emergency did it come from. Does he have any idea where such a crisis could have come from and the doctor after such a conversation. In fact, it is a psychiatric examination, which looks like a conversation, but the doctor is prepared to arrange a certain programme for this later and to have the appropriate psychiatric conclusions from this. He will decide whether there is a need for this child to stay in hospital or not.

Monika Rachtan
And now the doctor tells me that my daughter should stay in this hospital.

Artur Wisniewski
He stated that she should stay in hospital. Well, that's where the question usually stays.

Monika Rachtan
The decision is made by the parent or the child.

Artur Wisniewski
Depends. If the child is under 16, then the parent. Of course, it is important that the child agrees, but they do not have to agree. Under our legal system, those under 16 are represented by their parents and consent is signed by the parent.

Monika Rachtan
And what about when the child says I don't want to, Mum says I want to. The child starts screaming, banging his hands, fists, crying, goes to the corner, sits down, puts his head between his legs, screams and says he's not going anywhere and won't stay anywhere. And he wants to go home.

Artur Wisniewski
We are trying to help. We try to understand what's going on, to invalidate his emotions, because these are terrible things. All of a sudden the separation, we don't know why. I don't know what's happening to me, especially if I'm actually a person in some kind of emotional crisis, already baseline. And here there's the added stress of being separated from your family, being put in an unknown place among unknown people and other people, especially with various other emotional problems, it's stressful, but that's what the staff are there for too in the ward, there are psychologists, there are occupational therapists, there are nurses, there are doctors who make sure that the comfort of some child has of course a psychiatric hospital, a closed one. This is a last resort, isn't it? And if a child ends up there, we do everything we can to make sure it's a more diagnostic stay, in fact now hospitals have become such an emergency. It's true that they are there for a quick assessment, an attempt at diagnosis, and it's still good for the treatment and the long-term effects to take place outside the hospital, for example, in a day ward or outpatient clinic.

Monika Rachtan
And how are these interactions, relationships between children who are in a psychiatric hospital? How do they deal with all the emotions there? Because on the one hand, for example, I imagine a girl who is deeply depressed, who is overstimulated, who is annoyed by every sound, who would like to lock herself in a room, cover the windows and sit there. And on the other hand I see a person who is very expressive, who has a lot of negative and positive emotions. And they are in the same room.

Artur Wisniewski
Do the staff decide what is beneficial for the person, what is not? Of course adapting this also to the physical conditions of that ward. We know that there are far too few places in relation to the number of people who need them, and the psychiatrists are trying to change this so that as few people as possible end up in hospital. But then, when needed, such a person can firstly count on a conversation, secondly he can count on contact with his parent, for example by phone. We can give him the possibility of solitary confinement with consent. This is different from solitary confinement, which serves agitated patients. When we can't cope, and we don't want to pacify them in some other way, then this person can be offered these different forms. Surely, too, one of the aims of a hospital stay is to teach these people to regulate their emotions. What do I do when I find it difficult? When I can't stand my emotions, because most of these kids end up because they have dysregulated emotions. For example, they've cut themselves, they have a suicide attempt, they've bargained for their life, and they can't handle emotions that are so strong that they have to actually be helped from the outside.

Artur Wisniewski
To protect them from hurting themselves. The aim in hospital too is to teach such skills or at least to identify what there is to do at all, as this will be a long process, perhaps just after discharge. Sometimes including medication, if needed, to keep those emotions more in check too. It goes like this.

Monika Rachtan
And do children have access to mobile phones in psychiatric wards?

Artur Wisniewski
But it is limited.

Monika Rachtan
OK, so there we go again, though, what we were talking about.

Artur Wisniewski
That prohibition, that's something that sometimes doesn't do any good, right? I was talking about this emotional dysregulation, right? How would we imagine that our brain, especially the adolescent brain, which is nevertheless highly volatile, emotionally unstable, goes through such crises naturally, well, because he's going to be an adolescent, a teenager. It's a natural form of crisis, isn't it? And that has to be survived somehow. A lot of people cope, while some don't. What social media does, on the other hand, is like having a thermostat, right? It works to maintain a certain constant temperature, doesn't it? And it's our way of controlling our emotions. It's like that thermostat someone is trying to unregulate. And that's how notifications work, which is popping. Emotions already, right? Liking. Discouragement. Someone saw me, someone heckled me. There's an adjustment to that thermostat all the time, right? A thermostat like that will break down very quickly, won't it? And it's not going to measure and gauge that temperature that it needs to. It's going to fail because it's either going to be out of adjustment or it's going to be broken altogether. That's what happens to emotions that are overstimulated, that don't have a chance to regulate themselves naturally.

Monika Rachtan
And when such patients end up in the psychiatrist's office, is this work to just get things working harmoniously and well? Is this work only with the child himself, or do you also work with the child's environment? What does this look like?

Artur Wisniewski
This is the difference that makes child psychiatrists fewer than adult psychiatrists, because it is harder work. Here the patient or client is the whole family, the system in which this child functions, and the child is only a symptom, often the truth. It is good if it is possible to get the school involved. If it is possible to get the parents involved in at least family therapy. When goals are set jointly, when the child can negotiate various things with the parent, but at the same time when we, the therapists, suggest to the parents what is worthwhile and what is not worthwhile, what to insist on, what not to forbid, because there is no point, and what to set certain limits on.

Monika Rachtan
The doctor is a child psychiatrist who practices in Warsaw in a rather difficult environment.

Artur Wisniewski
Specific.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, you can end up with a wife's child from Konstancin. And then it's probably a bit of a problem to make all these changes. Because I have this feeling, and I say this as my subjective opinion, that a lot of parents, until something as serious as a suicide attempt, cuts themselves. They're happy to have these kids on these social media because they've got peace of mind, and these kids are overstimulated by the media, they're overstimulated by English karate, Chinese karate, and in Warsaw it's very much visible, because when I talk to my friends, they say they pick their kids up from after-school activities at 9 p.m. And is it easy to take those.

Artur Wisniewski
Two full-time jobs in a young person, right?

Monika Rachtan
And is it easy to take that hammer and for those parents to just knock it out of their heads and say Hey, what are you doing with your child?

Artur Wisniewski
I wonder who should be the main patient in the practice? Yes, it's a dilemma, isn't it? And it's been the case many times before that this rebellion, for example, or these oppositional behaviours of the kid, is actually a healthy reaction to an unhealthy situation at home and on.

Monika Rachtan
Unhealthy parental behaviour.

Artur Wisniewski
Because then the aim is to work with the parent mainly. Sometimes it turns out, unfortunately rarely, that only the parents will be the main focus. For the child we then no longer have anything to offer, because he reacts accordingly to what is happening. If we change and fix what is happening around him, he will not have to present such behaviour.

Monika Rachtan
Well that's right, because isn't it a little bit that it's us, our generation that has a problem with social media because we're the ones who have been lumped in as 10 12.

Artur Wisniewski
The problem, But research shows otherwise. If we study, for example, different age groups and addictions, often from internet addiction, there is a much higher risk and higher prevalence in younger people, right? Just as there are also studies showing that there are many more people with addiction among girls than among boys.

Monika Rachtan
This is interesting.

Artur Wisniewski
Interesting. In the same way, if we're already talking about the specifics of these addictions, girls are more into social media, guys are into games and that's how it works. They also have a bigger, higher chance. More risk. Younger kids. As I was reviewing the research recently it's so incidental, but very interesting in India. There the paediatricians were surveyed because it was such a big study. All the hospitals in the area were surveyed. In the emergency room, as paediatricians admitted children of different ages, for different reasons, not psychiatric, all of them. Everyone filled in some kind of questionnaire with the parent and with the child. Just about media use. It turned out that they did. The thing that shocked me the most was the use of mobile phones and the internet in a puzzling and disturbing way was the 50%. Attention children under 12 months of age. Cellphone. In the normal paediatric population, that is, in children who come in, for example, I don't know, with abdominal pain, whatever, no. Those who are sick, psychiatric, anything.

Monika Rachtan
Very interesting what you are saying, because I keep saying that what we have done to ourselves with this social media is let.

Artur Wisniewski
The first to throw a stone who doesn't watch the internet. I won't say where it is, but I'm talking about the bedroom.

Monika Rachtan
It is. It is our fault, our generation that got these media because we did not know how to manage them in such a way that no one taught us.

Artur Wisniewski
In the same way, nobody teaches our kids. They are often smarter and more proficient than various older people in how to use it, right? I, for example, didn't know what FOMO was, but I learned from my daughter. So.

Monika Rachtan
I would be happy to listen.

Artur Wisniewski
Fear of missing out, which is a kind of fear of disappearing. If you don't check in, if you don't respond, if you fall out of favour on social media. Also, I have to constantly check in. I have to constantly stay up to date online, because otherwise a very big anxiety something can get past me and I'm in such a state of anxiety that it's sort of verging on this kind of anxiety disorder real.

Monika Rachtan
Well, and what is your diagnosis as a psychiatrist? How do you look at what is happening in social media? What might we be facing in 10 years' time if we don't embrace the subject?

Artur Wisniewski
It may be different. I would not think that it will be somehow tragic and terrible, because I am counting on the rationality of those in power in the first place and that they will come to an agreement or even force the media corporations to adopt all sorts of sane approaches. For example. To be clear, though, that children cannot be subjected to these algorithms that are even flooding them at the moment, that media cannot be used without any limit, that it has to be filtered, that you can't, for example, let it go as an algorithm of constant scrolling without stopping, that new content is being suggested all the time, that advertising and various other products should not be targeted in terms of how much our children use what they've watched, right? And that's not something a child is going to do on their own, is it? We adults should show some sense. When I say adults, I'm talking about parents, I'm talking about policy makers, I'm talking about companies, right? Algorithms don't have feelings and they don't have reason. They are doing what someone has commissioned them to do and someone is behind it, someone is making money from it. And that's why I think that if we don't get this under control, it can indeed be difficult.

Monika Rachtan
I think it is a realisation in the minds of decision-makers and the public at large that social media is not a tool for me to call my grandmother from America and have a video chat with her. Of course, I'm talking in the head of the person who created it, and she didn't create it either, because her dream was that people would be able to meet in our classrooms 20 years after graduation. Just to make money so that this someone.

Artur Wisniewski
It simply wants to make as much money as possible, the algorithms are squeezing every penny out of us.

Monika Rachtan
But, but again, Doctor, this is where such an interesting point comes in, because for a person who is not so aware of all this when it comes to social media, he says well how come? After all, Instagram is free, Facebook is free.

Artur Wisniewski
But our information that they take for themselves is also given away for free, right? That's the paradox. We don't even know how much stuff these various algorithms know about us just now, do we? We are profiled in such a way that we will be led on a string in different directions, depending on how one wishes.

Monika Rachtan
That's right. And now is the time to take action. The doctor said we can't ban social media and I am too.

Artur Wisniewski
That's not going to give, because we're all in it already. It's kind of part of our reality, isn't it? You have to do your homework, you have to look up, you have to contact someone, you have to not fall out of your group of friends, you have to keep up to date with information. But of course there has to be a reasonable amount of information, right? If we go to the supermarket and we load up a basket and we load up as if we're loading information into our brain, if we don't process it and arrange it in that basket or rearrange it and store it properly, then even if we add to that basket, it's all going to fall off, isn't it?

Monika Rachtan
Well, and it is 2025 that is the year of prevention and education declared by the Senate. Me too. This shows in general that the mission of this programme makes sense and that someone also wants to educate and persuade people about prevention. But precisely in this year, when we have this presidency of the European Union, when we have this year of prevention and education, is it high time to embrace the problem.

Artur Wisniewski
Because people are noticing it themselves, aren't they? They can already see what's happening that they're not coping with, right? That how would we recommend that they monitor for themselves how much time it actually takes them or how often they have to glance at the screen, Or how many times in a week they've had that situation where they haven't taken their mobile phone with them. It turns out that, well, that's not really the situation, is it? And people are clamouring for it to be regulated too. I'm not saying everyone, but some don't know.

Monika Rachtan
Who should take care of this. Is it the task of the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Digitalisation? Is it a task?

Artur Wisniewski
The question is not for me. Me, I think all sensible people will be in favour of limiting it, because it's and the conversations with the corporations, right? It's the legislators and the schools who will have the chance to promote healthy lifestyles and the parents who will know what to do with their child if they have that mobile phone taken away from them, right? Who won't use it themselves either and will do something Offline together, right? They'll go for a walk, they'll go for a walk, they'll suggest something that's more attractive. I wish happier than browsing and scrolling through various media, right? Dopamine is perfectly stimulated there. Algorithms do what they are shown.

Monika Rachtan
But someone had the brains to come up with it. It turns out that banning social media is a bit of a cop-out and nevertheless irresponsible behaviour, because it is always the case that we are able to find an alternative. So today with an appeal to all those who have a say in this decision. We talk to Dr Arthur Wisniewski about what social media should look like in order to be safe for the mental health of our children. Doctor, thank you very much for our conversation today.

Artur Wisniewski
I hope you have resonated with what you wanted to convey.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you very much. This was the programme. First of all, the patient. My name is Monika Rachtan and ironically, I invite you to my social media. Thank you. Thanks.