Social media. Is it an experiment on a global scale? Episode 79

Monika Rachtan
Hi Monika Rachtan, I would like to welcome you very warmly to the next episode of Patient First. We probably all know about the fact that in health there is all sorts of information that is not entirely true, but how it is is a big deal. Today I'm going to talk to my guest, and it's Maja Herman. Good morning, and a very warm welcome to you. Good morning, good morning. You're a psychiatrist who's very active in social media and you're watching this social media, so you see what it all looks like. And when you look at what's happening on X ie in terms of health, what kind of information is coming out, what kind of comments are coming out and how huge the scale is, what do you think?

Maya Herman
I think to myself that it is time to introduce robust regulation of social media and its users. This has been my main thought for about two years now, that without these robust, also difficult for many people, sub-regulation we will not go further, because by what opportunities social media gives to sow disinformation, we may turn out. We may find that, unfortunately, our lives and health are simply at risk. I know these are such highfalutin words, but they seem appropriate in this situation.

Monika Rachtan
I have been thinking lately about whether social media can, for example, cause a war or whether it can cause a pandemic.

Maya Herman
They can.

Monika Rachtan
And we completely fail to realise that just as people were invited to a pretend Halloween party, which wasn't there at all, and those people all flocked there, all of a sudden someone can put a message on this Twitter right now, put up a website, a whole service, get people crossed, who all of a sudden all start writing that we have a pandemic and on social media this pandemic is going to explode, and there's actually no virus at all. That's how it is.

Maya Herman
Little by little, this outbreak of pandemonium on social media will cause people in real life to feel threatened in real life, which in turn can lead to riots, crises of all kinds, suicide attempts and so on and so on, and so on little by little. I mean, what happens on social media always translates into the real world, which is what happens in real life. Always.

Monika Rachtan
I thought about how to just compare and show people the impact that social media has on this reality. I thought of children who play computer games. It's always seemed to us that a child just sits in some computer game, then stops playing and continues to be a normal Tom, Kate or Zosia. Today we can see, for example, how this unreal world of these games has changed our kids, so that they suddenly become aggressive, that they become antisocial, that they become excluded.

Maya Herman
And the WHO has included gaming addiction in the game, from mental health-related illnesses.

Monika Rachtan
And I think that social media is also a bit of a game. That when you go there, you enter a world that doesn't exist, that isn't real at all. And these people, I can create an account on social media today, add a picture of myself and write that I'm a doctor of medicine and I specialise in surgery and I'm going to advise people that, I don't know, when they have cancer, they shouldn't operate, because then they'll spread the cancer and most people won't be inquisitive enough to check my affiliation. And the fact that I'm actually not a doctor so and so.

Maya Herman
Because all you have to do is make a good probability and that's really ours. Human brains are very simple, I mean they love maybe another way of being very complicated, but they love to simplify this complex web that is around us and within us to such a minimum. This is called cognitive errors. We all have it, we all do it, because it allows our brain to process this mega giga amount of data that is supplied to us from everywhere. We simplify ourselves, we simplify ourselves to such simple things. I see you, you're dressed fully professionally, you've got a suit, then immediately my brain simplifies itself and I understand you as someone who is competent. Because that's how it works. That's how it works. If, on top of that, you also have a professorial medical degree plaque here, then additionally my brain will believe it. Well, that's because it is. He's supposed to simplify his life, not complicate it. And in some situations this is super good, because there are situations where you should do this, but unfortunately in other situations it leads us astray.

Monika Rachtan
That's right, because not all of us are investigative journalists, or at least have the inclination to check everyone, because I, for example, check everyone. If I read some health-related information and it seems to me that this person has said something that is not in my head, that is not in line with the medical knowledge that I have. Of course, I haven't eaten all my brains and I may not know everything, but if it is so suspicious to me, well, the first thing I do is I look for this person, and most often I do. If it is a Pole, at the Supreme Chamber of Physicians, is he even a doctor? Or on the Internet. And I try to find evidence that this person may be competent to make data, to make given statements. Whereas the moment we read something on the internet, I think that maybe 2% of the public does what I do. We tend to read and say ok, well that's the way it is, yes.

Maya Herman
There is, There was such a study, it was back in the very beginning still X portal was called Twitter at that time and that was from 10 years ago, 12 years ago. If not, they went on to do such a study. They posted an article that when you clicked on the link Inside there was nothing. Empty, because zero content. There was, of course, a clickbait title, information, some short footer describing what was in the article. They did this to see how many people would click on the link and start reading what was there. And it turned out. I can't remember the numbers now, but the vast majority of people didn't click at all, and it was known because they were discussing the content even at the point where someone in the comments And did you read it at all? Of course I read it and it was already such a piece of information and they collected that data based on that and it turned out that the vast majority of people don't go in and click and go further. Well, you know, it's also like this stick has two ends, because on the other hand if we take everything apart and we take it apart, and we take it apart, and we take it apart, we can also drown.

Maya Herman
And, on the one hand, it is good that you have to be vigilant and, for example, simple tools like, I don't know, Pharmacists are on a list that you can find for yourself on the internet. Doctors are on that list. Nurses and nurse practitioners are in that list. You can already find that by these lists of these chambers, whether it's doctors or nurses. And it would seem that you could stop at that point already. But of course, unfortunately, some people go on and on and question, and question this authority, question it in absolutely every area And it starts to get a little bit of a problem, because with.

Monika Rachtan
That's also what you come across, see if you're a doctor who is a practising doctor, so you have some knowledge, you have a lot of knowledge, you have experience, you have observations from your practice, you see patients and you can make certain statements as an expert.

Maya Herman
Yes I.

Monika Rachtan
People in general can say ok, she has medical knowledge, experience and all that, so you should listen to her. But I also see these comments Well that's exactly X. And these people totally undermine your authority, ridicule you, write all sorts of epithets and totally disregard the fact that you graduated and have been with these patients for many years.

Maya Herman
Yes, people, it's very interesting what you're saying and I actually struggle with it. One, that I'm blonde, two, that I sort of don't disguise my stylistic means with clothing because I love to play with my look and I'm not afraid to do that either. That's already there. You know, it's just what I said to you at the beginning, that you look like a journalist. Now the question is, do I look like a doctor, and do I look like a psychiatrist? But I think later on, I don't know, the merits will stand up for me. But for example, you know, people, if they want to attach, they'll attach to anything. I, for example, say, I write a post and I write. In my cabinet experience, let's think about what I just wrote a post about. About statistics? About I don't know, some umbrella article in a reputable, reputable medical journal. Did I just write what I see when I see X patients every day for X days a week, for x days a month in my practice? Well it is clear that I did what I wrote from my own office observation.

Maya Herman
And people forget nowadays that this is also science and then, for example, to me they question me. And show me the research on it. I say Well I can't show you the research for it see sentence one.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, because that is my observation.

Maya Herman
And this is also in EBM em, because EBM has several of its components. Which is EBM em. People like to say to themselves. Evidence-based medicine. Is that evidence based medicine? It's not, because you haven't shown me the research for it. Well, isn't it?

Monika Rachtan
Well?

Maya Herman
Well, because there is also an observational study. We also make theses. There's a hypothesis, there's a thesis, there's a theory, then we test it, then we keep trying.

Monika Rachtan
But precisely for there to be any recommendation, for there to be any. Some kind of guideline, there must first be a number of observations, Because to make someone practice.

Maya Herman
Exactly.

Monika Rachtan
Because in order for these 50 professors to be willing to sit down and work on a thesis or hypothesis, someone has to make these observations, pluck these flowers so that they can finally make a bouquet out of it and say, OK, this doctor has good observations, but someone else has different ones, so it is also often included in these recommendations that we have worked out somewhere from many opinions that someone can observe. Yes, but that's not it. And this is where it absolutely looks like this. Well, it's as if the thesis and the recommendation arises first from the practitioners who gather their experience, a.

Maya Herman
I later have 40 or 50 comments. Show me your academic title. Show me the right to speak out. I don't have a science degree, but I do have a medical degree and that gives me the right to speak on science. I have. I have received education, I have received this education confirmed by a state exam, by an exam, it is confirmed still in the field of specialisation, by a state exam. This is still an additional thing. So I have the knowledge and I have the ability and the credit to interpret science and observe science and talk about science and talk about science. That's the thing that sometimes in there heads just don't fit and it starts to boil over. Like I start writing something. I don't like on social media at all to describe single studies, such, for example, my educational content, about some single study, it's practically impossible to find on the internet. I don't know, maybe I got interested in something somewhere and I once described something or as a criticism that something someone is just using this one study to bolster their thesis. Then I show the study with a critical eye then maybe yes, but to talk about some curiosity?

Maya Herman
I personally don't like it very much, because I think it causes too much confusion for people, because people don't have, because to verify some single study that says, for example, I don't know, physical activity in depressive disorders had more benefit than sport than antidepressants. There is a study that says that. It's just that then you have to go into the limitations, or the limitations of that study into the methodology and you have to analyse it all and check it. And then it turns out to be something completely different. But to verify that in turn, you have to have background knowledge. The rest as to the rest of the research that is out there on the subject.

Monika Rachtan
Well, because if you have to compare something, well, you have to.

Maya Herman
I personally don't like this kind of education through single scientific reports, and I think it creates a lot of confusion in the minds of people who don't have the competence and tools to be able to assess this professionally.

Monika Rachtan
Well that's right, because it's also a huge responsibility when you make any statements or theses or hypotheses on the internet. Well, because people don't have all these tools and competences to verify it. So I think that before you write anything at all on these social media, you think 57 times, because apart from the fact that I'm talking about scientific things, not opinions, because opinions I also think, but apart from the fact that it's read by Kowalskis, it's also read by your colleague who is a PhD professor and he can already verify more whether you write the truth or not and then he will tell you and I'm crazy at all? What kind of stuff are you writing? Terrible on this internet, So here there must be some behind it.

Maya Herman
That's the way it goes and goes, because it's impossible without it. As for opinions the same. Listen, because every opinion I have. If I have a reach behind a lot of reach or behind a lot of reach comes a lot of responsibility and that's what people forget. I don't write to three people anymore, one of which is my mother, the second is my sister and the third is a neighbour. That's just the way I write to people who. Well, I don't know who I'm reaching, I don't know what number, and I never know if it won't go viral. And if I'm too vague, which has happened to me in my 10 years of creating.

Monika Rachtan
This social media?

Maya Herman
Yeah, but, you know, I even have this sense that sometimes there's a one-word thing. Because I get so hung up on all the words that I use and I know. It's very emotional. Well it can go this way and that way. It's such and such, it can escalate so and so, it's such and such. And then the internet shows me that it's attached itself to something completely different, which I hadn't considered at all, that it was going to go and that it was going to be an issue that people were going to start shaking up. It made something viral, it became a big issue. 30,000 periodicals and various newspapers start passing it on, clinging to that one word. And that in general.

Monika Rachtan
This is not what everyone had in mind.

Maya Herman
But that's it, that's how it is, creating in these social media. And I say what I'm aiming for. What I'm aiming for is that this responsibility for my word well, every creator has to take it, has to take it on themselves, because it's on my side though, that responsibility. Of course I do things, sometimes I do on purpose and sometimes I do. Completely unconsciously something comes out of me. I am also not able to predict everything. Which has been a painful lesson of my being.

Monika Rachtan
But, you know, I also always think to myself that no matter what you said, but later that your face will be on the front page of the newspapers and, all in all, nobody will then ask whether you are a doctor, a professor, a psychiatrist, or whether you will be patched up as one who writes nonsense. And then what you wouldn't say and what you wouldn't do.

Maya Herman
They always pull it out then. Yes and it's like a boomerang. Then it comes back and it just is. I had that once. Oh Jesus, God, it was so horrible. But it's acutely me who didn't write anything bad here, it's just the haters who are from a certain part of the internet and the media that I don't want to advertise here. That's why such generalities that I will do anything not to say that name. But they have attached themselves to me for what I once wrote, because I wrote. Well there were different moods, tensions, political surges. Well, and the government decided. Well it's known that it happens. Well, whoever is involved in politics and political journalism or political piracy knows that you have to change the subject quickly. If there is a bad topic, you have to change it quickly. So, an opportunity arose, it rained a bit somewhere in some area of Poland, and then the government, in order to deflect the ball, started talking about a disaster, about something there, about something there. You know, this rain was really minimal. I wanted to talk about it on my media and say I knew they were now going to play a big disaster caused by the rain.

Maya Herman
Well, and the people there latched on to the fact that the psychiatrist is abnormal because she says the government caused the rain on purpose. You know, this is the level of manipulation that is so annoying. You already know. And that started to irritate me, so to them I say, Well speaking of causing rain, it's not such a fantasy either, because there are countries.

Monika Rachtan
How.

Maya Herman
Russia, but Dubai is doing the same thing with drones, sending drones, paralysing the clouds and causing rain, which is going completely wrong for them because that rain is falling in the wrong area where they want it. So it's kind of still in that research phase for now. Mother, how many articles have been written about it from that side, from that group, because that's the whole media group that runs it. And I'll tell you it was how many a year and a half ago and I still, every time I speak up, it's the right wing that if I attach, it's right away, and it's the abnormal one that says the government deliberately caused the rain. Where did I say that? Where did I say that?

Monika Rachtan
Witch Listen, because you might be the one calling the rain.

Maya Herman
I'm dancing on purpose, still smelling the sage then. No. Hahahahahaha Well, yes.

Monika Rachtan
But you know what, maybe record some viral videos about it, That would be good. I, like I say, I watch your social media, the videos you make. That would be really cool, you know, just to give them a bit of a feed so they can have a laugh like we do now. Why are you on that social media? Why are you on there?

Maya Herman
Because I really like doing something. I like it very much. You know what, it comes from my, from my personality? I have this idea of a fix, that I would like to leave something for future generations, future generations. And I'm a person who is proactive, which means I'm the one who will be the first one on the barricades to stand up and yell don't do this, because it's harming someone out there. And that's one part of my personality, and the other is that I would like to leave something behind. And then I thought to myself, these media and I love new technology And so all three of those things led to why I started being in these media. And you know, I like people in spite of the fact that sometimes I'll write there that people are this or that, but I like people. That's kind of my, my you know, little Achilles heel, that I really like them. I forgive a lot. I'm able to bend that head a lot. Okay. All right. All right. And so I think to myself, gee, well I have this access to knowledge.

Maya Herman
I've received this education, I've got it all in my head, I can still translate it into language, the human kind, from this psychiatric to Polish. And I think to myself, why not take advantage of that and speak? And besides, I'm an atheist, which you know. That's why everyone who is in the media is an atentius. It's also such an open secret.

Monika Rachtan
That's also true. And when you've just got that education and you're looking at this social media, you know, you're a psychiatrist, so you know how these people's heads work, you've got this secret knowledge, because you also put it together in a different way and it's cool to watch it, like you know just how people work. Well, because what we take part in nowadays being on social media, it's one big show, one big theatre. And once you start to get a sense of what it's all about. It gives me such wild satisfaction to say oh you, you, you, you're this and you're that. Yeah.

Maya Herman
Yes, I agree. Yes, I agree. These are.

Monika Rachtan
Disorders. MD.

Maya Herman
Whether. Is something a disorder? Do we not recognise it in the surgery. That's the kind of thing that I make sure and stick to. In social media, in media in general, you always have to remember that what you see is always a creation. No matter how someone may deny that they are sincere, real, the real me is 100 per cent me. And that may be true, But it goes on to be only a slice of the life of that real self, because all the rest of that 24 hours we can't see anyway. And so we don't know what it is. So as for these diagnoses and as for saying who is dysfunctional and who is not. It's more like you can see who's dysfunctional in some area. You know, for example, you can see who has. Because it's very easy to see who has, for example, a behavioural disorder, I don't know, some kind of, or excessive aggression, or is frustrated. And it's neither a disease nor a diagnosis, because there's no such code in the ICD, but you can see who is more severely ill and you can see, for example, such psychotic disorders can be seen on the internet, because psychotic disorders are associated with cognitive impairment and such massive cognitive impairment.

Maya Herman
And let me tell you that I would count such people with psychoses who are active on social media on the fingers of one, maybe two hands in my comments. Unfortunately, all the rest of these people from what they write look perfectly healthy, just with problems, with aggression, with frustration, with all sorts of self-confidence, with what there such personality, some difficulties they have.

Monika Rachtan
Would you say as a psychiatrist that people's heads are being spoilt by social media?

Maya Herman
It's an interesting question and a difficult one I'll tell you. Ambiguous. I would rather say that they could be fantastically non-spoiling and could be a wonderful tool. They could be and could be a really wonderful thing. And they are a wonderful thing. They are not a wonderful thing. It's just that it's because we've got so caught up in this social media, you said we're participating in a great theatre, and I would say even, I would go a step further and I would say we're participating, we're participating in a great experiment, because we're the ones who are creating this social media for now, what it looks like. We are still young in this social media. All of us. we are just learning and testing. We're going a little to the right. We're on fire. We're retreating a little bit in the other direction. We're starting to go. And it is, and it is. We're just learning that. So these kind of long-term effects, will they ultimately harm us, Will they ultimately be good for us? A lot depends on how we find ourselves in this experiment. That is my opinion. In principle, I think they are a good thing, because I am, however, in favour of popularising science, information, knowledge, all sorts of things.

Maya Herman
The nasty things in our stories happened because nobody knew about them and they could happen in silence. That saying violence likes silence. This is probably the best reflection of that. And this violence is different. And thanks to the media, everything can be publicised. Of course. But publicising it can do a great deal of harm and a great deal of damage. And that's the danger of social media.

Monika Rachtan
I have the impression that a person who is active on social media, let's say on a daily basis, has Facebook, writes with her friends on a group, is on WhatsApp, has an account, then publishes a photo on Instagram from time to time from a holiday, that she is completely unaware of the environment she is in and what this whole social media bubble looks like. That there are also some dark woods that she wouldn't want to look into for sure. And that one dangerous move, one photo and there she could find herself for a while or for a very long time. And that there are also those fairy-tale places where pink unicorns walk around, but that they too are not necessarily as cool as we might think, that the average person doesn't have a clue about what social media looks like. He only sees the slice he is in at any given time, where he is comfortable and safe, but doesn't realise that he could end up in a dark forest.

Maya Herman
Yes, but the gray Smith doesn't know that, because nobody taught him that, and nobody could teach him that. Because back then, when there was time to learn social media, there wasn't. They just appeared in our lives. We didn't have time to stand back and think about it, to prepare ourselves well for it.

Monika Rachtan
I decide I'm in, I'm not in.

Maya Herman
I'm in, I'm out, because we didn't know anything at the time. We didn't know how Marek started with his ridiculous idea of stalking university girls. Who would have thought it would take on such a big function. And yes, and it will be such a tycoon. This university student who just wanted to judge girls on whether they were suitable for dating or not. Well, who would have thought it at the time. Now, for example, there is a very analogous situation, in my opinion with artificial intelligence. Except that we already know that these new technologies can either be a salvation or a curse. And notice what is happening with artificial intelligence. Notice how we are keeping a close eye on this artificial intelligence, so that right from the start, the limitations, the information, the science on artificial intelligence, the social media labels. This material was created by artificial intelligence. Automatically appearing markings is already completely. Universities are created places, institutes, universities, institutes are created that teach about artificial intelligence. Where. How was Facebook created, where was an institute created to teach about social media? Well there wasn't. We assumed it was such a children's game created by children and fun for children.

Maya Herman
And we have forgotten that the most valuable thing. The most profitable thing, and the thing on which you can make the most money, is information.

Monika Rachtan
That's right.

Maya Herman
He who has information has the most power. There is no greater power than information.

Monika Rachtan
I remember my social media crash through Nasza Klasa and see how we were caught up in something totally fun. This Our Class wasn't created, in my opinion, as a forum for the kids who were in that class at the time, it was just such a nice throwback to the old days for 40-50 year olds. All of a sudden you could dig out that bench mate of yours, see what his wife and kids looked like and if she was prettier than me. And I could do that. He could see that I was doing it. So there might have been some kind of thread of understanding. And again it's that people sort of look for contact. And you know, which ones.

Maya Herman
Was research done then? There was research done then and it showed. And there are those studies in the market showed that the number of divorces and separations.

Monika Rachtan
I.

Maya Herman
Betrayals increased at a time when the very beginning of our class and Facebook was an increase in precisely this type of partnership difficulty, to put it mildly.

Monika Rachtan
But you see, I immediately thought along these lines, and I think to myself that we totally didn't know what we were getting into. That by setting up an account on Our Class and there these people who created it, they already knew perfectly well that there was going to be this Twitter, that there was going to be this Facebook as it is today. They had a plan for it, but we were totally Us going in to see what Our Ex's wife looked like. We did.

Maya Herman
Yes, yes, yes. And we didn't understand how it, what kind of dependency it would be, because we also didn't know how much kind of dependency we would get from it. Because notice, I remember, I remember something else from social media the most. I remember my first patient, who at the time I was already in my 30s. Okay, and she was like 20-something years old. And I remember this patient, let's call her Anna. And Anna was left by her fiancé sometime before the wedding. And Anna, as part of this despair, came to me just like that. More so in that kind of counselling. Well, because heartbreak, despair, dashed hopes And I remember, this whole story has been known to mankind for 100 million years. Anna It's something everyone has dozens of in their environment, so it's nothing like that. But what is different about this story? I remember when she started explaining to me that he hadn't liked her photo now. I'm thinking, so what, and I'm totally taken aback. I say to her Ms Anna, but why are you doing this?

Maya Herman
What? It doesn't mean anything. And she says no, it means a lot. And I remember at the time, I was sitting on this couch and thinking oh, oh. And here I am confessing, I wanted to say to Ms Ani, who has a different name.

Monika Rachtan
And she.

Maya Herman
I'm sure she knows it's her I'm talking about, because I've already told her then too. Anna, I was wrong. Here it turns out that these likes matter a lot. And now we know that it matters, that by this activity, this other side, we can actually deduce, albeit with high probability, whether he is involved with us or not. Those hearts sent while browsing our stories, how quickly does a like appear under my new post? And how does it not appear? When, at what times does he view my stories? It all matters. And I was thinking to myself at the time about Ms Annie and thinking to myself God, well why does it matter to her? It doesn't matter at all whether or not he likes her or doesn't like her.

Monika Rachtan
But of course it does. It's such a tool in general to be a spy, Because I, for example, monitor my Competition through social media, because if I see that 57 times she goes on my Instagram account, she doesn't leave a like and she doesn't say hi to me in the corridor when we pass each other at a conference, well I know something is wrong. I say Oh gosh, well I'm getting ready here.

Maya Herman
And such more information do you have? You can make these enemies and friends, yes? It's better to arrange this grid socially. But again.

Monika Rachtan
It's that realisation that you have to be mega conscious out there on that social media.

Maya Herman
Yes? You can't go there at all without it. I've been looking at research like this recently and I've been in it a lot too. What's happening with seniors? Because let's remember that seniors, including seniors, are watching social media.

Monika Rachtan
Safe.

Maya Herman
Very. They fall for all sorts of scams very easily. But what seniors and senior citizens, what they clash with, is the trolls. This is a generation of people who grew up on conversation, on dialogue. If you tell me you're mean, I'll tell you why you say I'm mean, and then you tell me, Because he smiled crookedly at me. She smiled and I didn't smile crookedly, I was just after a dentist appointment and that's where it came from. Aaa, I get it, we have it explained. And this is the generation that immediately explains to themselves and expects the other person to start explaining. And now there's a troll like that, who's tasked with one thing: sowing misinformation or creating conflict in a particular group. He comes in, drops a bomb, you're all knocked down and he leaves and he's no longer there. And these seniors and seniors, well they start it. Why did you write that? What did I do that was so bad? And the big discussion starts, the ruminations start, they start, well, the negative health effects of that comment they start to pick up, well, because they feel bad about it.

Maya Herman
And it's also the kind of thing, well it's like we all know what a troll is, what a function is, What is the troll for? Precisely to throw you a bomb and sow Disinformation.

Monika Rachtan
Out with the emotion and leave.

Maya Herman
you with emotions. What does a troll account look like? That you should go in and click on that person's profile so you can see who's there, how much content they have, what they share, what they don't share, what it looks like. Then you're fooled and how do you know if it's a fake account or not? Well that would be easier.

Monika Rachtan
It would be easier. But then again, nobody teaches anyone that, do they?

Maya Herman
Well, because we are in a big experiment and we all learn a little bit from each other. I also recently collided with a thing that I completely didn't know how to deal with. I still don't quite know what to do with it and how to deal with it. I have no one to ask. I do recognise authority figures. I am a person who recognises authorities, there just isn't someone. There's no one in the psychiatric world that I can ask because there's a situation where I've criticised a teenage influencer like a 19 year old influencer because he's a pato influencer, it's like for a few weeks I've been non-stop watching his live shows, all his content that he's uploaded and I've decided to say and veto his activity because he's a pato influencer and he's harming the children of the audience of his. This is a group of 8 12 year olds, which is unacceptable and these kids just shouldn't be watching such things. Then again, the older ones shouldn't be watching the kind of stuff he puts out there either. Recently he set his hair on fire on a live show for example of such recent things he did, he set his hair on fire on a live show and now I have criticised him and his fans and female fans.

Maya Herman
It's such a group of kids, just teenagers. She started writing me disgusting messages and disgusting comments, but really so unfunny I would say.

Monika Rachtan
Such that we can hardly imagine.

Maya Herman
It's probably very difficult. And, you know, normally, because it's happening on IG, so it's not hard to imagine that there could be such disgusting comments. But here I was going into the profiles of these people and I could see that these were children. These were real kids. They weren't fake accounts, they weren't trolls, they weren't bots, they were real kids. And I was now getting this information What am I supposed to do about it? Who am I supposed to go to with this? How do I respond to him? How do I defend myself? How do I take on the function of an adult? The adult is there for when a child does something wrong. I pay attention so that this child can learn that he is doing something wrong. But how do you pay attention on social media to a child who writes to you? Don't listen to yourself.

Monika Rachtan
That is a good question. You know, I think that's another thing that we would have to start a debate on. Have we introduced our children to social media in the right way and are we now, as already us, being where we are, are we not making the bloody mistake of letting them go there again, But as they look at us, as we are terribly addicted, addicted to this media, they think to themselves Jesus, how is it important to be there? How important is it to be there? Because I thought to myself, these kids are terribly addicted to this very influencer, pato influencer, that he's God to them, that mum, because you know, you were that mum there at the time, not an adult. That it doesn't matter what mum says, it matters what he says. And as if mum's opinion doesn't matter.

Maya Herman
Because mum doesn't know anything. You know, because it's the parents who are old, stupid, blind and deaf still to it all. Of course they do. Australia is introducing restrictions and the Australian government wants to introduce that social media will be accessible. All social media will be available from the age of 16 and they want to do it on a verification basis, with their ID cards, those in their own way. Yes, we could do it too and we should do it too. I, in general, think create content. If a child wants to create content online, it is only and exclusively through the filter of the parent. That is, only and exclusively through a parent who approves every post, approves every story and approves every comment.

Monika Rachtan
But it's kind of a utopia, because we parents are just sending these kids out into the world of social media to give us a holy break, because we don't want to take care of them at all. We finally have time to go to yoga, I don't know, watch TV with my husband.

Maya Herman
But you know, I don't even say receivers. It's still a bit different. But I'm talking about creators now just creating content, creating itself, making films. Just that you know.

Monika Rachtan
Almost everyone is a creator. Well, because today kids on these social media and.

Maya Herman
This should be limited. I am, I am terribly strict, I know.

Monika Rachtan
That you are not very radical. Whereas I, imagine one time I went to the Patient Ombudsman and I said to him let's make a filter together to decide what in health is communicated on social media because it hurts my eyes and my head and my brain when I read that it's death. And he said to me Well but you know what about freedom of speech? I say bash freedom of speech. You just have to be radical, because in a moment these media are going to kill us, yes and they are killing us.

Maya Herman
I would even go a step further. They kill. This is, of course, an argument about freedom of speech. This is the most common argument that is raised. But freedom of speech ends where the risk to the health and life of others begins. Well there is no other option, there isn't. Health is not an area of conjecture, it is health. It's either this or that and it's over. Like I tell you that you can stop taking antidepressants because antidepressants are bad, they are harmful, they are addictive, they will make you a zombie. It means I am a threat to your health and life at this point.

Monika Rachtan
And many other people.

Maya Herman
And that's the end of it. And that should be the end of the discussion in this regard at all. And that's where the speculation begins. And are we sure? And has anyone realistically suffered harm because of it? Well, you know. They are realistically suffering harm because of this. Because I have them in the practice. They later come into the practice and say Well, I didn't take the medication because, you know, there I was reading about this or that, I was scared, I was scared. So they delay treatment. In every branch of medicine. The longer you delay treatment, the longer the active disease is in you and the worse the effects are for the future. It is best to prevent the disease.

Monika Rachtan
But how it will perform.

Maya Herman
And if it occurs, it should be treated, not waited for it to happen on its own. And on its own. It only thunders and flashes on its own, as Słowacki said.

Monika Rachtan
You know, I invited you to this programme. After a certain conference of a certain man whose name I will not say. Because how can you.

Maya Herman
To say.

Monika Rachtan
A charlatan. a charlatan, a charlatan or I still use the word madman, which is maybe a bit ugly, but I'm not afraid because the charlatan allowed it. Yes, yes. Charlatan. The charlatan allowed.

Maya Herman
The court ruled that it was not offensive, so it could be used against him. Charlatan. We used to joke that he was a guru because he was acting like a guru. Well, because he was there live during this whole conference. And I have to tell you that I was terrified of that conference, But construct a question, please.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you very much. For two days in Gliwice people sat and listened to the charlatan and other charlatans, because he has his whole sort of team, so to speak.

Maya Herman
It was one day, one day. Yes, yes, it was one day.

Monika Rachtan
Then I will ask the question again. Okay. Well. In Gliwice, for one whole day, people sat and listened to a charlatan and his whole entourage of charlatans spouting some different things about health. And now, just as we were talking about whether or not to shut up people who say stupid things, I was shut up there and I wonder how those. I don't know how many people were there, but there they reported that several hundred. Even around. This hall was big. That hall was.

Maya Herman
Huge. In Gliwice, the hall was huge, as it was working. We started counting the rows of chairs that were there. It turned out that about 1,000 to 1,500 people could even sit in this hall and the hall was full. We were there for 13 hours and for those 13 hours the hall was full. And the exhibition centre was so full of people that it was actually difficult to go through there and it was terrifying. It was terrifying, who came there?

Monika Rachtan
Old grannies? I don't know, Those people who buy a merino quilt for 5,000, Were there also those normal people who, if you were sitting on the bus, you'd say no. Well it's generally not a charlatan.

Maya Herman
I'm the one who has to vehemently deny it here, because these grannies who buy these quilts are also normal, just manipulated, no? But you know what, well the scary thing was because precisely not at all. The older people who are the easiest to manipulate. Exactly no, it wasn't that group. It was people in their 30s, 40s, 50s. If I had to say who was the biggest group, it was the group of about 40 year olds, men and women equally. And that was absolutely groundbreaking for me, because I expected as you did. Yeah? Well, just like you. Stereotypically I was expecting old, older women, the kind of 60 or so after about 70, who.

Monika Rachtan
They suffer from obesity and whom no one wants to help with their aching knees.

Maya Herman
That's right. Who are lonely, who have no one left, so this canvasser who sells them dreams is their greatest friend. That's how I expected them to be. And what I saw were young, healthy, well-groomed, against the odds, very well-groomed people from such a so-called. I don't like this classism, but that's what I'll use to illustrate it from the middle class.

Speaker 3
And it went like this.

Maya Herman
Totally scary for me. I so you know, I've turned around myself a dozen times. Who is around me? And each time I was terrified.

Monika Rachtan
Tell me. Have you talked to these people? Have you managed to talk to anyone? With any of them to ask what they are doing here?

Maya Herman
I was with two more doctors with Kasia and Ola and. And let me tell you, they were the ones who did the talking. Because I was a little bit afraid that if I started talking, that someone might start associating me.

Monika Rachtan
Or he'll throw it out right away. I was so scared.

Maya Herman
I'm afraid someone will throw me out.

Monika Rachtan
Hence with her on.

Maya Herman
Stole. I was very afraid of that. Of course I did. I fooled everyone's brains because I took off my trademark earrings, which I always, everywhere I go, and that's when I become invisible.

Monika Rachtan
Have you tied up your hair? Maybe.

Maya Herman
Yes, I think I had my hair tied up and a grey jumper. It's already jumpers in general. It's already in general. I disappeared. And the girls were talking. I'll tell you, the girls were talking and they were such normal, completely normal people like you and me.

Monika Rachtan
Then what were they doing there?

Maya Herman
They were looking for. I don't know. They were looking for answers. To be heard. To be understood. You know, the truth is that we are an ailing society. Obviously it's something that you are or are not ill with. It's a medical secret, so I don't want you to answer. But if I ask you or you ask me if you have any illnesses or have had any in the recent past, you will name at least two as well. Although I don't know your medical history, I'm just shooting that yes at least two you would list and I would list at least two. Because we are sick, because we are overloaded, we are tired, we are achy. I can't put it into words, but we're aching from everything. We have problems with obesity, we have problems with over-working, which affects our overall health and. And now we go from this doctor to that doctor or we don't go because we can't get in because there are no places. Or we prefer to use the internet because it's quicker for us and here. Yes. And we then come across these people who have a ready-made solution for us in the situation we are living in.

Maya Herman
It is such a world under one thumb, under one thumb you have the answer to all the world's questions. What is the meaning? Starting with the philosophical one, what is the meaning of life, to how much does one ant weigh? You'll find it all in a nanosecond. And now imagine that medicine is such that if you come to me and ask me and ask me please tell me why? Will my treatment help me? Let's stay in my speciality. Will antidepressant treatment help me? I am not going to tell you. Yes on 100% it will help you. Only I will tell you yes. Of course it will help, provided I mention something here. When it will not. Here I will list the next condition and when it is retained. Here I will list the third condition with the right one. The fourth condition. This is what the doctor and the doctor will answer you. And the charlatan will answer you 100% I will help you. And you know this and this. This kind of finding the same thing that is in your life, which is a world under one thumb in a world of one answer will definitely help you. It causes these people to start being seduced by this, this vision that there is one single thing that will cause you to find a solution for everything.

Maya Herman
Pill for every ideal.

Monika Rachtan
And you know, and I think to myself, then nothing is up to them. And it's so beautiful, because either they get it, they take it, they swallow it and it's fine and they don't have to do anything anymore, or they don't get it and they go to this doctor who's going to tell them something and who's going to demand something from them. And we don't want any more to be required of us. We live in such a world. I in general it was a great conversation. We have to end it now, but maybe we shouldn't brag so much, But I would like to tell you at the end that if you think it was a conversation about nothing, it was a conversation about everything. Yes.

Maya Herman
Because that's what social media is. I think we have subconsciously recreated what social media is. It's from the bottom up. You start one topic and it branches out into 30,000 other topics. That's what social media is. And if you don't have clear, hard structures or knowledge about it, you can get lost.

Monika Rachtan
Well, two radical women who want to cut off people's access to social media met. My guest, but especially your guest, was Maja Herman. Maja thank you very much. Thank you to you as well. If you managed to make it to the end of this conversation. That was the programme. First of all. Patient. My name is Monika Rachtan and I invite you to subscribe to my YouTub channel. Thanks.