What is the importance of a doctor's image on the Internet? Monika Rachtan talks to Iwona Kania spokesperson of the Supreme Chamber of Physicians. Episode 102

Iwona Kania
And that basically also affects less revenue, because if we don't invest in this so to speak private business, private initiative, well we won't have that revenue. I think it's good that we're talking about disenchanting the gods.

Monika Rachtan
And we make them human.

Iwona Kania
Yes, because you can't be a hero, it's impossible to be a hero. Everyone has a certain pain threshold, a certain endurance and there's this whole Instagram strewn about, this whole grid, this whole feed in such bits of the human body. Will that convince you so strongly to go and do this procedure? They may have a different view of the world from right to left, but I think we're really lucky to have very people who are willing to make sacrifices when the situation calls for it, and on top of that they're very well educated compared to our healthcare system. The system there is much poorer. That number of benefits that a patient is entitled to, that's just an insured person too, is much lower.

Monika Rachtan
Hi Monika Rachtan. I would like to welcome you very warmly to another episode of The Patient. Today we are going to talk about how doctors should take care of their image on social media, as they are not allowed to advertise. With me today is Iwona Kania. Hi, Iwona.

Iwona Kania
Hello, hello. It is a pleasure to meet you. I am glad to see you.

Monika Rachtan
I am also very pleased. Iwona is the deputy spokesperson for the Supreme Medical Council. But you're actually involved in healthcare PR, yes?

Iwona Kania
Yes, this has been my occupation for several years and an occupation and a passion.

Monika Rachtan
Tell me, how do you watch doctors' profiles? I'm not talking about those doctors, the instagrammers, because those are kind of the skilled ones. But in general, how do you observe doctors' profiles on social media, do they dabble in social media at all, or is it more like average?

Iwona Kania
I think that this threshold of entry into this community of doctors, influencers is coming down. That is, from Polish to ours. Anyone can set up a profile and everyone also thinks that they are a super specialist and that they will be good at it because they had a private Facebook where they shared photos of their holidays or dinners or some of their shopping. Well the situation gets complicated because Instagram has changed a lot and all social media has changed a lot over the last years. And what used to still be a trend or was something that didn't really gross us out.

Monika Rachtan
What was virulent.

Iwona Kania
What was virulent now turns out not to build our professional image. And the same issue of the same matrix can be applied to the issue of the image of doctors. That is, they willingly go into these social media for the most part. But then there is the problem of what to put out there, with what regularity, or people go to great lengths to share their private image, which we are all entitled to do, of course. On the other hand, this also determines who we will be online and how the recipient will perceive us. Or the second axis. The other part of this axis is that there are those who build very professionally, but this message is too static. For example, this is the example I like to talk about, because it's all of us who see the profiles of doctors who are into aesthetic medicine or dentistry. And you see Monica, a piece of a tooth, a piece of an eye and a piece of a mouth and the whole Instagram strewn about, the whole grid, the whole feed in such chunks of the human body. Is that going to convince you so strongly to go and have this procedure done?

Monika Rachtan
Well, not necessarily. Well, it is. So you have to break it down somehow and put it together skilfully. And that's what you do, that's what you help the doctors with. But you know what, I've noticed another problem. Because there are some doctors who want to, they go to this internet and start showing up in it. But there are also doctors who are totally unaware that they exist on the internet. We all know of one comparison website where we can rate a doctor. And there are doctors who care about this rating and there are doctors who don't care about this rating and don't even know what rating they have. And then when you go into the comments it's a bit embarrassing and you'd have to do something about it, but they don't have that idea at all that they're on the internet. And I often invite various people here to my couch, so I do some research beforehand and I look at them and I say, gosh, this professor should set up a website. Adam Nowak .pl/ Because the way he looks on the first page which is displayed does not prove his professionalism.

Monika Rachtan
Do you have the same observations?

Iwona Kania
I have the same observations. Moreover, what you are talking about is very important. Doctors often either don't have this awareness or because of an overabundance of activity they no longer have the time to take care of, to take care of this sphere in a sense of communication with the patient, yes, in commerce we would call it client service. And some people are very much agitating that this is not the case, that how can they be judged? Well, we live in such times when these medical services are also subject to a certain degree of evaluation. The public is exchanging opinions and at this point I think it's important not to be offended, but to think about the process in such a way that if it's not me. Iwona Kania I don't have time to write back to comments. Maybe it's worth hiring someone, maybe it's worth training someone from the team to take care of just these online reviews, because they are very important when we are looking for a doctor for ourselves as patients. The first thing is a Google search, YouTube, Instagram. We are looking for some information about this specialist. If we come across such irresponsible comments, we can also build up a very damaging image of the doctor when there are answers there.

Iwona Kania
It can also be arranged differently in your mind.

Monika Rachtan
And it's not that this doctor is explaining himself to someone either, but sometimes it's just that someone is making bad PR for us on the internet. And this is a phenomenon we encounter in every industry, including medicine.

Iwona Kania
We must also bear in mind that the sick person, the chronically ill person, the patient who comes to see the doctor, at this starting point at the threshold, is a person with some problem, with some difficulty, with some emotions that may be negative. So it's not the same situation as buying yourself a chocolate or a sweet, nice drink or a postcard, but we are dealing with a person in some kind of conflict, in some kind of mental hole, crisis, and these situations can be causing this unloading in a sense on the medical staff. There are examples of this on the Internet too. I have reacted as well. Recently, someone even recorded a reel on Instagram who gave doctors the right to talk like that. I think we can't lump everyone together, but in these situations too, which are difficult, the patient also has the right and should react.

Monika Rachtan
If you found our conversation interesting and are looking for more valuable content, subscribe to us on YouTube and Spotify. Monika Rachtan. Invitation. I think to myself that often doctors are totally unaware of what the internet writes about them. And I remember such a situation. A doctor friend calls me and says You know, because I have a Google account there my business card. And all of a sudden I'm sitting in the office, a patient comes in and says Mr Doctor is such a bad doctor, because I can't get through to you here, I can't get through to you notoriously, appointments are six months apart. In general, he is a bad doctor. He looks at the patient and says: "But this is your first time with me, you're still here. If you think that I am a bad doctor, why did you come to see me? What do you mean? Well, what do you mean from where? It was on the business card in the comments. Well, and then this doctor realised that just someone might be writing false information in this in these comments. And I remember him saying that after that conversation with the patient he thought a bit and okay, one.

Monika Rachtan
But he says he's been looking at his appointment book and somehow lately the number of appointments ahead hasn't been at all like he's always looked at the calendar. Aha, okay, I've got a free appointment in 5 weeks, and here he looks and says Oh, in a fortnight I've already got the same free appointments And he related these situations to a conversation with a patient. He looked at his account, typed in his name and it turned out that actually someone, some spammer just gave him a rating of one from several different accounts and wrote various comments about him. And now what to do in a situation like that? Because, you know, we've been unscrambling it together and it's terribly difficult to get it right at all. Did it ever happen to you at all to fight this kind of hate?

Iwona Kania
Yes, fighting hate speech is a very difficult situation, but Facebook and various portals have tools for reporting infringements. I would also encourage them to do so, because more than once, including at the Supreme Chamber of Physicians, we encounter situations in which doctors report to us that, for example, their image has been used to advertise some medicinal product, while they were not really aware that such a product existed, and a crime, simply a crime, has been committed. In the same way, we should deal with people who hate us on the Internet. Of course, this is going to be a long process, and here it is worthwhile to have such knowledge, but also the support of specialists, because there are PR agencies, marketing agencies, specialists who deal with this. So I think that the problem of doctors, and this is also perhaps such an interesting conclusion, is the system of the prescriber and how doctors are educated. I will decide everything. I will do everything because I will do it best. Ok, on issues of treatment we agree as much as possible, but do these activities on Facebook, on the internet, on comments, on Google business card really necessarily have to be done by Professor Iksinski, because it weighs him down, it weighs him down.

Iwona Kania
And here you don't have to be a great coach or some kind of business strategist. And any strategist will tell you that those activities which we can cede, we should give away so that we can do the more ambitious ones and those which are consistent with our education. So here I think that this problem, which the Americans, for example, are already overcoming, because somewhere there these systems are set up, that we are still trying to live in such a system, I'll do myself, I'll do Facebook, I'll keep this page of 93 myself, too, because I don't want to pay those few thousand for a service, and this essentially also affects less income, because if we don't invest in this. Well, yes, I'll call it a private business private initiative, well, we won't have that much revenue either, because, as the doctor himself saw, there are simply fewer visits, patients will be fewer and fewer and. And it might be worth rethinking the strategy though.

Monika Rachtan
Because I thought, this is what I'm going to do all by myself, the so-called 'Samosiaosia'. Because in the old days, when there was a doctor's surgery, you didn't even require the doctor to have a cash register in the surgery, did you? Up until a few years ago, the doctor would come in, sit down on a chair.

Iwona Kania
The townhouse often had these offices, didn't it?

Monika Rachtan
He opened. If he had a computer, he had a computer. But we also remember a time like that, when there was a notebook and you didn't have to have anything else to treat. Yes. And now all that has changed. We often have beautiful clinics, we have a lady receptionist, we have a cash register, a computer, a lot of equipment in the practice, well we don't have a website. This is the greatest tragedy of this doctor. Well, because it's not that he's supposed to promote himself there, he's just supposed to have this business card, because it's impossible to sign off the internet today.

Iwona Kania
Yes, it is impossible. Also, digitisation, which is very much progressing, but also in health care, I think it's worth saying, has huge advantages. We have e-referral, we have prescription, service, patient gov. All of these things make it easier both for patients and for doctors, so in a digital world it's hard to live without these facilities. And I would look at it in such a positive way that it is something that can make our work easier. It's a tool to educate our patients as well, because if I have 15 20 minutes to see a patient, and I'm an Endocrinologist for example, I'm not able to do all that education during the visit. But there are some people who have such great profiles on Instagram, they record Education rolls and when recommending to their patient, you can say and here next week I'm going to record about this famous weight loss drug, because there's going to be this content that maybe you ladies would be interested in. And that's also where you can just educate what doctors complain about not having the time to do. For patient encounters, you can take it to the virtual space. Live's. Live's, webinars, which can be held from different parts of the country, the world, have just become hugely popular.

Monika Rachtan
Just wondering, when you're a full-time doctor, that's it. Is there time for all this, to educate, to prepare rolls? You know, doing the rolls yourself, you know how much work it is.

Iwona Kania
This is a lot of work.

Monika Rachtan
That's right.

Iwona Kania
I think that, in a sense, doctors have been involved in various initiatives over the years. Whether it was lectures or whether it was just some sort of roadshow consultation. You might want to rethink what has better appeal, whether it's spending one day a month working on the rolls and preparing so-called content, or travelling all over the country, where 50 people will see us. I always explain it in such a way that ok, doctor, professor, you will dedicate one day of work to social media. It is difficult for you, but you will be seen by 50,000 people, and the next month maybe 100 or 200,000 people. Or you will go from Warsaw to Koszalin and there will be a wonderful closed meeting, from which you will put pictures on Facebook and that's it. So I also find that when I open myself up to spreading some kind of knowledge, be it educational, preventive or PR, many more people are able to get to know it. And they write, they respond, they ask questions, and it doesn't limit us geographically. I think this is my core business and my challenge, to educate in this area, because we cannot geographically exclude certain regions because there are fewer doctors there.

Iwona Kania
If we open it up, more to this online system, all of a sudden you find that patients have access to the best educational lectures and that is hugely pro-social.

Monika Rachtan
Well, that's right, and this health education is required by all of us, again and again and always. But let's come back to this image of the doctor and the doctor who should take care of his image on the Internet and is not yet an instagrammer. Is it the case that what we are talking about, i.e. this beautiful website, maybe this LinkedIn, that this is the domain of doctors in large agglomerations, that, however, when we go to a small town, the word of mouth, what the lady Zosia in the shop says about us, is still very important, that, however, maybe we are a bit crazy and say that the whole world has moved to the internet, while somewhere in a small village in the Suwałki region it looks completely different.

Iwona Kania
I think here I wouldn't look so much in terms of locality either, just perhaps the age of the doctors, because doctors from all over Poland. The younger ones are the younger generation. They are eager to use the internet and all such domains and portals. Whereas the older doctors really rely more on this word-of-mouth, on this, on these recommendations. I wouldn't say that this is inferior either, because a certain group of patients will be more convinced of a doctor who simply organises education in a senior citizens' club or even in a parish somewhere, or who joins in a health-promoting picnic. This too is media relations and this too is public relations. We have to tailor it to the people we can target. So here I think there are many examples of this reaching out to the community. Doctors, nurses, paramedics and that's something fantastic too. And it doesn't all have to be on Instagram. Absolutely.

Monika Rachtan
You are the deputy ombudsman at the Supreme Medical Council. I wonder how many doctors you know. Can you give a figure?

Iwona Kania
Oh, I think it will be in the thousands. It's difficult for me to say maybe such a specific number. How many doctors do I know, because I also get to know someone every day actually through. Through here or through my work in the chamber or through my work in the medical industry, because that is also the case. But what is interesting is that I meet very different people who have very different views of the world, but what unites doctors, and I would say this quite boldly, is that doctors in Poland are really united by their concern for the patient. They may have a different view of the world from right to left, but I think we are really lucky to have very people who are willing to make sacrifices when the situation calls for it, and on top of that they are very well educated.

Monika Rachtan
And what kind of market do we have in Poland today? The patient market or the doctor market?

Iwona Kania
A difficult question, because this market is also changing in terms of the legislation that is being introduced and the various changes. Here I think that the environment is concerned, the patients are concerned about certain talks about the reform of hospitals, the possible closure of wards. It is well known that for smaller towns this is a big drama and is bought with a great deal of fear. As we listen to various statements of directors of hospitals in smaller towns, in small voivodeships, they are frightened, for example, by the closure of delivery rooms. So, in a sense, my colleague Kuba Kosikowski, who is a spokesman for the Supreme Chamber of Physicians, has also been tweeting a lot about such organisational content in healthcare organisations, and he often writes about how limiting public health spending is such a shot in the knee to the patient, because doctors will, in a sense, manage on the private market. It's just do we want to allow as a society a situation where someone can afford something and someone can't? I also talk a great deal about the United States in my speeches here, but I cannot fail to point out that, compared with our health care system, the system there is much poorer. The number of services to which a patient is entitled, that is, only an insured person, is much lower.

Iwona Kania
In our country, if a patient becomes ill, has heart or lung failure, they are entitled to this treatment. In the United States, these are huge costs, so we have to keep these two compasses in mind here. Is the system pro-patient? I think it still is, but we are also the kind of society that is used to a welfare state model and a state that socially cares for sick people, including poorer people who cannot afford certain benefits. Is this important for doctors? I think it is. I think it is important that health care is reimbursed by the state, that we are not such a capitalist, liberal society that only looks through the prism of money. But that's also changing and that's what we see when we listen to politicians.

Monika Rachtan
And how do you look at the image of the doctor or, more to the point, how the doctor is perceived in society versus how it was perceived 30 20 years ago. Well, you know, it used to be that if you went to the doctor and you wanted something, you had to ask for it. The best thing to do was to bring a gift bag with you to give to the doctor, and then you could achieve more. Nowadays, doctors even get offended when patients offer them a gift or flowers or something else.

Iwona Kania
Doctors are refusing to accept any small gifts and I think this is the right direction. All these issues that have been going on over the last 15 years or so. Simply related to corruption. I think it has shaken Polish society somewhere. And doctors are wary of such situations. But how are they perceived? I think it is worth talking about this crisis in the image of the doctor these days in terms of trust in the doctor, because there are some social movements which are very anti-medicine based on anti-doctor facts and they are pulling out some, well, maybe negative stories about links with the pharmaceutical industry or some oversights in the treatment process. This lowers the profile of the profession. Also, I feel that in general as a society we are becoming so More like a utilitarian norm in language. Everything is so casual, so it's no longer the doctor you used to go to by bowing down. And I think doctors have to work a lot harder for respect, because especially young people often say, well, well, someone's a professor, someone's a politician, someone's a priest or a doctor or still some kind of policeman.

Iwona Kania
But why, in principle, should I respect him? It is not recognised as such. So there are certainly some fractures here, some more fractures on such a financial level, because a lot of people emphasise that, all right, you doctors are complaining, but your salaries are huge compared to the salaries of an average Pole. I also have the impression that this is a factor which can be difficult to assess and which may cause aversion to doctors, because we do not like those who are better off, not remembering that this is paid for by effort, education, and competence.

Monika Rachtan
You know, I often say that people who make statements about doctors' salaries had a choice, because at the age when they chose high school, they could have chosen a biology and chemistry class and gone through the trouble of finishing those classes, and then they could have gone into medicine. Because it's not like we're going to say today that to study medicine you have to have a lot more money. I'm saying if you go to a state university than when you decide to study computer science, because de facto that student and that student has to rent a flat. If he leaves his place of residence, he has to commute to university. It's certainly harder for a medical student to work, because you know there's more of that study. But in general, it's as if everyone, everyone could choose medicine?

Iwona Kania
Yes, it does. In addition, such hegemony also appears somewhere in relation to lawyers, in relation to TV stars. Why does a lady presenter earn several tens of thousands of zloty? Well, it is difficult to probe here. All this is followed by some kind of competence, and in the medical profession these sacrifices are really a lot and we have to realise this. And at the level of studies, a specific model of education that cannot be realised online somewhere. Then quite a long way to reach that financial status. It is known that the situation of residents is now a bit better than it was a few years ago, but it is still a job full of effort, dedication and sometimes very unpredictable schedule. Many doctors are experiencing problems with professional burnout, a lack of regularisation of their family situation, or simply relationships breaking down because their spouses cannot bear the burden of travel, night duty, and the constant uncertainty of whether or not the father will be there for the child's communion. So there are a lot of these fractures. There is also a lot of talk about the emotional crises of the medical community. And I think it's good that we're talking about it, that we're disenchanting the gods.

Monika Rachtan
And we make them human.

Iwona Kania
Because you can't be a hero, you can't be a hero. We all have a certain threshold of pain, a certain endurance, and we also have to allow for the fact that there will be those worse days and give professional support to those people.

Monika Rachtan
That's right. A doctor is also a human being, and I often say in this programme that we have to start seeing the doctor as a human being, that he also has a family, that he also has children, that he also has this communion, that he has these baptisms, and that he has the right to them. And that when the doctor isn't in the surgery because he's ill, well, Krysia the dressmaker might not be in the workshop today either, because she's ill, and no one is offended at Krysia. Everyone shouts at the doctor.

Iwona Kania
They shout. There is also a kind of pressure and such an expectation that this doctor will be 24/7 available to their family with medical advice. The hotline, auntie's knee hurts. This is also what doctors face with such an excessive workload, also problems and different issues to be solved medically, which even sometimes are not consistent with their speciality. But since you are a doctor, you should a series of requests. You should know if you should help somewhere here, how to arrange such and such treatment. These are very aggravating topics. It's not about painting your nails, not belittling or choosing a colour costume, it's sometimes a matter of life and death.

Monika Rachtan
You come into contact with doctors every day, as you said and mentioned about professional burnout. Is it common for doctors to talk like corpo people? Quit it all and go to a desert island to peel shrimps? Is it often the case that you see stories like this, that a doctor just can't take all the pressure anymore and quits the profession?

Iwona Kania
No. In such semi-private conversations I often come across, especially when I am talking to treatment workers. With the kind of I can't stand it any more, I'm already going to the Bieszczady, I'm dropping it. But it's more a question of the moment and a question of just opening up and I will often listen somewhere. I know it's going to happen, but I'll listen and somewhere in there I'm glad that someone has put so much trust in me that they're able to open up like that. Doctors don't quit their jobs willingly, especially surgeons who really enjoy performing operations, who have chosen this profession, who are full of passion, who like to pass on their knowledge. However, the psychological burden is very high. I think it is also a question of the organisation of the work of Polish hospitals, how it works. Doctors often don't have a rest area, a place where they can cool down after an operation. Everything goes on in what I call a train. Yes. And I think such a good example. Once my former supervisor said to me Ah, there, the surgeon talked to you so badly. But imagine having to concentrate for eight, ten hours, Yes very hard to concentrate.

Iwona Kania
If you concentrate for two hours on a document, you're already looking for coffee, right? And it really made me realise that such tension, prolonged concentration during an operation has to be relieved somewhere by the doctor. I'm not saying that shouting is good.

Monika Rachtan
On the patient.

Iwona Kania
Or on a colleague at work shouting is not good. On the other hand, I think it's good to look for ways like this, some healthy way of dealing with stress. Sports, meditation, various walks with the dog, going out, walking in the mountains. Yes, music. O many colleagues also make music. Such a way of coping with what is a huge effort, such an even. I went into surgery because I was also somewhere as a hospital spokesperson and working on film productions, I saw a world that is completely different. Such a theatrum of human life. It can't even be fully described in conversation.

Monika Rachtan
Experts are sounding the alarm that we have an ageing population and we are, in my opinion, somewhat unaware of what this means for us in terms of health. Although today, medical faculties are open to new students and a great many of these students are being accepted, and we will not discuss this, because we are not allowed to and would rather not expose ourselves to anyone, so let us leave it at that. On the other hand, I have this feeling that why study medicine at all, you know, young people nowadays are comfortable and want to have a comfortable life. They want to get paid quickly, their first paycheck, take out a loan, buy a flat. And who would bother to study medicine for a couple of years and then become a resident. And the salaries are not that great during specialisation. It's still not that great either, and it's only this specialisation that allows you to become independent and buy your first Mercedes or whatever you choose.

Iwona Kania
Small flat.

Monika Rachtan
Or a flat. Whereas it's easier, for example, to go into programming in your third year of university, start programming, have a job contract and sort of the job market is open. And I think that young people who don't want to strain themselves, that in a while they won't think about medical faculties at all. And it's not only such majors as medicine that are at risk, but also midwifery, medical nursing. I don't know who wants to be a paramedic these days, so.

Iwona Kania
This is difficult. And also as the Supreme Chamber of Physicians we look at the attitudes of, for example, young doctors who are entering the profession and some people actually Declare We would like to have a job from eight to sixteen. Then I take my hat, I take my briefcase, I leave. I have my life. There are more and more such people. Is that why, for example, the boom in dermatology or aesthetic medicine? I'm not belittling them at all, because I think they are very much needed. However, such work, quieter work, which does not require being on duty, being an on-call doctor in the ED, so here a certain attitude of well, we are going to have a very big problem as a society, because people who want to be committed to every whistle, every phone call, to go to hospital. Transplantologists emphasise that there are not a lot of young people willing to become surgeons, transplantologists and sleep with a phone.

Monika Rachtan
I remember a colleague of mine who chose radiology and I asked him Why are you choosing radiology? He Radiology says You know, because I'm going to buy a piece of equipment that allows me to describe pictures from anywhere in the world. And I'm going to sit in Hawaii and describe the pictures to myself. I say But you didn't become a doctor so you know. Patient. So cool. Hospital. There's so much going on. And he said You don't know what, I totally can't imagine working with a patient at all, I can't imagine the workload. My parents are doctors and I sort of knew I was going to go into medicine because I wouldn't change the status of my life. Whereas I knew I had to go into medicine, but I absolutely knew I wouldn't want to work with a patient.

Iwona Kania
There are attitudes I'm curious to see how it will turn out, because we can't, we won't turn the tide either. Yes. And I am also against such statements. There used to be times, now there are no times. We have to look so sensibly at how things will develop. Perhaps telemedicine and digitalisation in healthcare will be a solution. Well, and we also count on the fact that some people have a real passion for simply working with people and that this will win out, that this is somewhere universal in certain types of temperament, character, because it is also the temperament sometimes that indicates that someone loves to be a doctor, a raw material. I know people like that who wouldn't sit in an outpatient clinic, they would just take apart that GP practice and twist it and wash it because they like the adrenaline. So we also need to I think focus I mean it's not us but the educators of the universities on that kind of recognition and that kind of showing the way to the students in question. Listen, you with your temperament would be a good surgeon and you might be a better ophthalmologist and somewhere to model. It's such a Gallup talent conscious attitude, such a conscious attitude.

Iwona Kania
What is our predisposition?

Monika Rachtan
Do you think artificial intelligence can replace the doctor at the operating table, or at least take the doctor's place?

Iwona Kania
A bit of a handout. Hand one out. I, for one, am a fan of this artificial intelligence. I think it can improve a lot. I'm curious to see how this legislative issue here, that we won't have access to these American chips, but it's like I say, we'll be looking at it. Artificial intelligence can support both just radiologists. That's what's being talked about most extensively, but also doctors of various specialties, on the basis of prompting in hospital systems for example epikrys, i.e. with the given PKD codes, ICD codes, PKD. Recently we have been discussing in the aspect of charlatans. With given ICD codes, it can prompt certain formulas to doctors, so that the epicritis is created a little bit faster in different aspects or temperature measurements. Such an electronic workaround. There are various machines already in use, for example in Gdansk, at the UCK hospital, which support the medical staff. I think this is the future, so that a human being does not do all these small, minor activities, but focuses on those where you have to make a decision, you have to assess, evaluate the patient's condition and simply be with the patient, because no artificial intelligence can replace this human-to-human contact .

Monika Rachtan
And presence, right? And understanding. Well. We can see that the medical profession has changed a lot over the years. However, one thing that remains certain is that it is very important for the doctor to have empathy and to focus not only on his or her own needs, but above all on the needs of the patient. Iwona thank you very much for talking to us today.

Iwona Kania
Thank you very much for today's summary.

Monika Rachtan
My guest, but above all your guest, was Iwona Kania. Thank you very much for your attention. This was the programme 'Po Pierwsze Pacjent' (First Patient). My name is Monika Rachtan, and I would like to invite you to my social media, but also Iwona's, because it is also worth taking a look there. Thank you very much. See you there.