Emotions on a plate. When food becomes solace. Episode 11

Monika Rachtan
I invite you to listen to the podcast. Patient first. Good morning, I welcome you very warmly to the next episode of the podcast programme. Patient First. I am very pleased that once again you are with us and have decided to listen to our conversation. And today we are going to talk about the problem of obesity. And my guest and your guest is Ms Marta Pawłowska, who is a Family Health coach and an eating disorders specialist. Good morning, and welcome.

Marta Pawłowska
Good morning, welcome

Monika Rachtan
Ms Marta, thank you very much once again for agreeing to accept the invitation to join my programme. Well, we have met today to talk about the problem of obesity, which I think there is no doubt is a pandemic in our society. There are very, very many obese people in Poland. But perhaps I should start by asking, before we move on to these other obesity-related topics, simply why do people eat?

Marta Pawłowska
A short question, but the answer cannot be short. Ms Monica, why do people eat? And they eat because they feel physical hunger and need to satisfy it. But we also eat because we feel sad. We also eat because we are bored. We also eat when we are weary. We also eat when we don't like the world around us. We eat when we don't know how to deal with difficult emotions. We eat because others around us are eating, we eat because we don't want to make someone uncomfortable. We eat because we don't know how to say no to someone We eat because we are so overwhelmed by external advertising stimuli, for example, that we think everyone is eating and that it is okay to eat all the time. We eat because there is a social consent to eat everywhere and always and somewhere has become blurred. We also eat at such times for a great many reasons.

Monika Rachtan
And what should a person really eat for?

Marta Pawłowska
We should eat to provide ourselves with the right energy, the right minerals. And we should also eat so that we feel good, so that we feel pleasure, so that we feel the joy of eating. Because let us remember that eating is a physiological act, it is an emotional act and it is also a social act.

Monika Rachtan
I'm the one to ask, because it's amazing. We live for so many reasons. And what you said, Martha, it would seem that we eat all the time, that we get up in the morning, we start eating and we eat all day. It used to be that you had breakfast, second breakfast, possibly lunch.

Marta Pawłowska
Possibly afternoon tea and dinner.

Monika Rachtan
And now it's all so disturbed. Because, well, what has happened?

Marta Pawłowska
You are right. Eating has become such an everyday activity, available everywhere. You see, we actually live in a country where there is not a two hundred metre stretch where there is not at least a small grocery shop. Eating has become such an activity that we do between other activities in the morning, between showering and leaving the house we quickly throw something out. Yes, we throw something in, we come to work, we throw something in the coffee actually. Then after coffee we're a bit hungry, I snack on something again somewhere. It's a term that I really like. Snacking, which we think is not eating, and then it turns out that we can eat something twenty times a day, which is unhealthy for a human being, because it doesn't have that rhythm. Breakfast, energy supply, rest, another energy supply, so we have lost this natural rhythm of eating and eating breaks. Whereas, yes, they have changed, our lifestyles have changed, that we actually eat all the time, and what's more, we live in such a civilisation that allows it. Because let's see, there are even very many memes on the web or videos that talk about what American romance.

Marta Pawłowska
She is abandoned by him. She's the one, of course, lying on the bed, she's got these pink fops, with bodies like that, and she's all piled up with ice cream or pralines like that.

Monika Rachtan
So we are being brainwashed a little bit in the media that this food is always good, that we can eat it. Well, if the lady in the film can, then I can too, that's normality.

Marta Pawłowska
It's just getting so that this is normal and that is not normal. That is, somewhere the eating times have blurred and the proper, healthy habits have blurred, so that we eat for health, for pleasure, and not because we have nothing to do. And we often live in such a way that we eat because we have nothing to do. See how many people eat at work, taking a short break at work. At work you have to work very hard, very intensely. Even taking a half-hour break for lunch in some companies is not well regarded.

Monika Rachtan
This is true.

Marta Pawłowska
So we eat at the computer, we eat fast, we eat somewhere on the run and we even use every break at work. We have the right to be physically tired, so we take advantage of every break at work, instead of taking a walk around the building or opening a window, doing 20 sit-ups and breathing, we squeeze something to eat into such a break so that we have the strength to work so that we don't have to take another bigger break to eat afterwards. Have we blurred that? Our eating times have blurred. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, and what's left are these eating habits. What's left all the time is advertising, convenience, half meals.

Monika Rachtan
I would still ask about how we eat like this All the time, from morning to evening we roll. Maybe I'll answer a bit colloquially, but that's what the patient probably said. And as I said, this is a patient programme we speak the language of patients. I'm the one who throws myself in like that throughout the day to eat, I'm the one who controls what I eat.

Marta Pawłowska
Absolutely, absolutely not. We control what some of my charges see. When I ask them to write down exactly what is eaten that day and at what time. And then such a person, who has to write down even every 5 almonds, should write down or a handful of strawberries. Suddenly it turns out that we actually eat several times a day, and the next day we often can't remember what we ate. We can't tell if we ate a lot or ate little like. Then we even try to calculate how much it was more or less on a given day. It is very often because we eat that we underestimate the calorie content of what we eat, so we remember, for example, large meals, but we don't remember three coffee biscuits or two bunches of grapes. And these are elements that are also important in our eating.

Monika Rachtan
So far, those things you mentioned, which are on such lists, seem healthy. He you know about strawberries, about grapes? And are such healthy things, eating such healthy things a little bit can also cause problems of eating disorders?

Marta Pawłowska
I will already say. Firstly, in general, everything that is available in shops is authorised, which means it should be healthy. Theoretically, if we go to every shop in Poland, we should assume that the products that are there are authorised for sale, that is, they are not harmful to humans. Yes, so in theory they should be healthy. I mentioned strawberries or grapes. Yes, they are fruit, but let's remember that after eating fruit, if we think about our health, there are also certain limits, so, for example, is that what is happening now, when we eat these strawberries on these cobbles? Yes. Which is not so good either, because it is sugar though, it is fructose. An adult should eat fruit as a dessert. We should be eating more vegetables, more protein, more carbohydrates, and fruit should be such a side dish to vegetables. And we often get it wrong, especially during this summer and autumn season, when there are strawberries, apricots, plums and all these fruits. They're wonderful, they're fantastic, but we also eat too much of them and you can definitely get fat without eating, for example, strawberries, apricots and plums.

Marta Pawłowska
sweets, but eating lots of seasonal fruit.

Monika Rachtan
And what do the worst patient lists look like with what patients eat? What's on those lists? Do you remember such a list that.

Marta Pawłowska
Worst, or worst? Habitually Such worst habits are certainly snacking on high-calorie snacks with lots of sugar, salt, fat. That is, if someone starts breakfast with. Some such store-bought doughnuts. On top of that there's a chilled coffee. Yes, if there are some crisps an hour after that. If there are cabanos, which are very fatty, if there are foods that are very highly processed. It's very difficult, because we don't realise it, that there is far too much salt, sugar and fat in these very highly processed foods. Even yoghurt, even natural yoghurt, can have 3% of fat, and we can get 12% of fat. We often think that if the packaging has green writing on it, natural yoghurt, that it is definitely healthy for us. But when we compare different yoghurts and see that in one there is 2% of fat, in another with 12% of fat. When we see the so-called fruit yoghurts, unfortunately there is often a lot of this kind of fruit input, which is calorific. So these are such pitfalls.

Marta Pawłowska
We don't realise the moment when we don't go and start. If I take myself ten strawberries or a handful of blueberries and add 3 per cent natural yoghurt, that's a third of the calories than if I buy fruit yoghurt in the supermarket. And I don't even know what percentage of fat it has.

Monika Rachtan
Ms Marta, there are no silly questions in this programme, so I will ask a question from the patients. How do I know how much of this fat is in the yogurt? Because if it says it's natural bio yoghurt. So, yes, it all says there, but. I don't know how much of that fat. Where do I get this information from?

Marta Pawłowska
Out of the box, out of the box? I, for one, recommend that we all do our homework. At one time in their lives they spent a week learning how to read a label, because let's see. We are taught maths, we are taught how to use a car, we are taught how to use the internet, a computer and so on. And we are not taught to read labels. And then very many people go to the market and see how white they are. The packaging on this eco bio natural yoghurt or there's a pack of drink in a carton with these big gorgeous juicy oranges on top, and it actually turns out to be a drink. Where there is more sugar or water than actually fruit. So it's good to do your homework and learn to read labels. It's not easy from the start, but nothing is easy if you want to learn it for life. I always recommend that we go for an hour to the market where we usually shop and take products of the same category, flip different products and see what the difference is between them. Because if we have a table, there's a composition and on one yoghurt there's a fat of 3%, on another there will be just 9%, let's see how, for example.

Marta Pawłowska
this fat content translates into calories. How many more calories will there be?

Monika Rachtan
I'm also thinking about the fact that patients often, like not patients, but healthy people, when they read the label, they simply don't understand many of the words. And that's the problem, that they get discouraged, because so what if I read it, if I still don't know anything. So again, maybe it's worth going back to that education, going back to those government websites and reading for yourself there, what the secret ingredients mean, and then I guess expand a little bit.

Marta Pawłowska
Then expand a little bit. But you know, it's most important to, for example, set myself what I want to check to start with. For example, I want to check. So for example, if I buy some ketchup or tomato sauce, what should I check for? I should check how many tomatoes are in there, I should check if sugar is added, I should check if salt is added and how much water. And I assure you that on some labels it will give you a little bit of the simplest information on others. And that is information once they have allowed me to shop in that category. If I am looking at yoghurts, as I say fat and calories. So what should we see to begin with? We often get discouraged. You make a good point about how there is such a long formulation, how there is, for example, a lot of us that we don't understand, but we have over 60 names for sugar that we may not distinguish between, because in the formulation of highly processed products we may see both sugar and glucose-fructose syrup.

Monika Rachtan
Which is also.

Marta Pawłowska
Which is also a sugar, it has a side which is also a sugar. We can see fructose, which is a sugar, we can see juice, for example, fruit juice, which will be a form of sugar. So these names are actually a lot, but designate myself the kind of basic information that I need, and read the rest on clever government websites. Slowly.

Monika Rachtan
I'll be the one to ask what emotional eating is yet.

Marta Pawłowska
And emotional eating? This is the kind of eating disorder where the obstacle to rational, wise eating decisions is difficult emotions that we can't deal with.

Monika Rachtan
What emotions might these be?

Marta Pawłowska
It could be fear, for example fear of a conversation. Yes, someone is very afraid of a conversation of some kind, and let it be that they feel so insecure, that they feel that they don't have the strength for that conversation, they don't have the energy for that conversation. And then often the urge to eat something, to eat something sweet, for example, turns on. Because let's remember that eating in general is one form of dealing with emotions. This is one form. Its one I am not judging right now. It is not a good form of coping with emotions, but it is one such form. And now, if we can't cope with loneliness, with sadness someone has done us wrong, or we are depressed about something. There's a lot of tension in us and we don't know how to deal with that tension. And, for example, we don't have an hour to go for a brisk walk. It's very many people who reach for something to eat. Why does this happen? Because when we eat, we are doing some work. Are we not powerless? And that I eat, I do the work with my mouth, I digest.

Marta Pawłowska
So it seems to us that we are not interested. We are doing something about it. Also, if I eat, it often seems to give me energy to cope with the situation I am facing. In addition to this, it is very important to understand why we often eat something sweet in difficult situations, in such stress, sadness, anxiety. We eat It is because the sweet taste is the most primal taste for human beings, but it is also the most difficult taste for human beings. Sweet taste. Probably have the mother's fetal waters. The sweet taste, the sweetish taste, has mother's milk. That is, we associate the sweet taste so with love, with a sense of security, with warmth. So, when we are in strange situations, when we feel insecure, when we feel helpless, when we feel threatened, we automatically turn to the sweet taste. That's why it's often a bad habit. But we escape children when they cry with a sweet taste. Yes, we give children all sorts it is a bad habit. But we soothe children with a sweet taste. So that's why in situations like this, emotions like this, we don't know how to deal with something, we don't know what to do, and food is available everywhere.

Marta Pawłowska
Whenever I don't know what to do, I'll eat something or I'll do something already, it improves my mood a little bit, because we're also talking about the truth that we'll eat a little bit of dopamine, something sweet, maybe some chocolate? This myth that chocolate improves the mood, right? So we believe that too. We want to believe it And so we try to help ourselves.

Monika Rachtan
What are we helping each other with?

Marta Pawłowska
You know what, Often for a very brief moment we help each other, But I really like the phrase that sometimes it's better to experience an emotion than to flip it.

Monika Rachtan
That's right.

Marta Pawłowska
And we are often afraid of that. We're scared because you'll have to, for example, confront someone in a conversation. You're going to have to tell someone or yourself in your defence, or you're going to have to say sorry to someone, or you're going to have to say gee, this situation is stressing me out. What is it about this person who is talking to me that makes me always stressed out when talking to them? Or it could be that in the work that we do, for example, we don't want to do the job, we don't like it, but for example we don't have the strength to change jobs, so going to work we're tense because we know it's not something we want to do, so there's a tension in us, maybe a bit of helplessness, maybe a bit of this kind of anger at ourselves, maybe a bit of guilt In response to all this we eat, and sometimes it would be good to go for a walk. Hey, but what is this all about? Why is it that I'm the one getting so upset then? What is it about this friend of mine that when I talk to her, I feel like I have no energy afterwards?

Monika Rachtan
Is this a prescription for these problems? It's a look inside yourself, not a look inside the plate.

Marta Pawłowska
Here I will say both, because very often under the influence of emotion, science tells us that adults in Europe and the United States in stressful situations most of us eat either too much or eat. Not what is needed. So you are right that we should see if I, first of all, am actually eating too much or not what is needed so look at yourself. 2 see if it's a matter of me having a mess of food and not caring about it. I'm eating whatever, or are there actually some emotions under which I'm eating more. And if, with the diagnosis, I actually don't know how to deal with some emotion and then I overeat, well then you would have to start working on those two directions, that is, once on the plate, 2 on yourself, and you don't always have to go to a specialist or a therapist straight away. Sometimes you just need to talk to someone close to you, someone kind and someone who is emotionally stable or someone who we can trust. We can say a lot of things to him and we know he won't take it out, but also someone who we know is kind to us and who is emotionally stable.

Marta Pawłowska
Secondly, that is, someone who will listen to us. Because often, when we say things, we already see that if we have to name something, we are better off that way.

Monika Rachtan
We will face the problem with ourselves.

Marta Pawłowska
You are right, we will face up to the problem, because when these thoughts are just churning in the head, they only often create chaos, a feeling of helplessness, tension, fear, anger. And how we have to explain to the other person Listen, because then I feel like this. When I open that packet of crisps, I stop at the packet just like we have to tell it to someone, then we're already confronted a little bit with what it's about. And it's very often the case that in such a frank, longer, cool conversation, we can see what the problem is and either find out for ourselves what the problem is or decide what further steps to take, whether to change the amount of food, whether to change what I eat, whether to change the times or the structures, or whether to introduce food a little. Not the feeding times like a baby, like a small baby just the times that I eat, but also to talk to myself a little bit. Maybe see which situations, which emotions I can't handle. Read something, listen to someone cool, wise. So calmly and out of self-love.

Monika Rachtan
With this self-love. Many of us have a very big problem and we often notice problems in others. We say listen, you don't take care of yourself, take care of yourself, but we don't think about what I can do for myself. It's just in that kind of calm, tranquillity to feel better. And we often have a lot of health problems. We go to a lot of doctors.

Marta Pawłowska
Lots of tablets.

Monika Rachtan
And in fact it would be enough to stop for a while. And that's how I sometimes think about it in advance. To look at myself, at my behaviour and judge it a little bit. But so objectively, than to criticise like a judge. So just to say listen, this and that is there for improvement. I make a plan for myself to follow it. It's not a race. If I stop eating everything that harms me tomorrow and lose 10 kilos in a month, will there still be no medal there? If I do it with my head and get something out of it later, it will look completely different. But you said, Martha, about meeting some kind person we can talk to. Today we have huge social problems in our country, because you 19. Many of us really don't have friends, don't have close people. We go out to work, we go to the shop, we go home. We are constantly lonely because we are not alone. And if we don't have that person and we need to get help from that specialist, who do we go to?

Monika Rachtan
Because today we have doctors who do treatment. We have nutritionists today, we have psychologists. We can't go to all of them at the same time. Sometimes we can, but if we have to choose one, who do we start with?

Marta Pawłowska
You are right, I am already answering you, but I will also allude to the fact that we are so, so alone. Yes, you are right, but I will still push for us to build, to rebuild relationships. We are not lonely islands, And it's the Pandemic that has got us a bit used to just looking for information on the internet. Especially because the issue of food and it's also such a shameful subject, it's such a very intimate subject, that we don't deal with food. Yes, it's so it's difficult in today's time I'm drinking that I can't cope with eating. But as you say if we already want the help of a specialist, then I would say yes if we are a person with an obviously high body weight, that is if we do a BMI and we look obese or already significantly overweight, basically a pre-obese state, then I say go to the doctor, let's go to the doctor, let's see, especially if we also have some additional diseases, because let's remember that excessive body weight, whether it is overweight or whether it is obesity, is often the cause or such a generator of additional diseases, That is, very often it is diabetes, hypertension.

Marta Pawłowska
Yes, there is diabetes, there is obesity, there is still insulin resistance. Yes there is, if there is Hashimoto's, there is something else, there is something else, there are still joints. There's quite a lot of these diseases, so if we see that we actually have excessive body weight and there's an appearance somewhere, or there's different diseases, let's definitely go to the doctor, let's go to the doctor, let's talk to the doctor, let's see what tests we should still do so that this picture of our health is complete. Now we'll probably talk about how it is to talk to a doctor about obesity. I can already see you, I can already see your smile. Okay, I'll write. That's the point. On the other hand, I think. That's what they're there for and they're there to provide us with that diagnostic pathway of the treatment pathway. So here, that there is excessive weight and there is already a disease or is the disease starting to go to the doctor? If we see that there is a mess in this food of ours and we are eating by-productively, we put it in this fridge by-productively. After that, we know from that fridge we are taking out the bye-bye. That would definitely benefit from the advice of a nutritionist. But that doesn't mean we have to go to a paid nutritionist straight away.

Marta Pawłowska
I again recommend. Within the National Centre for Nutrition Education there is. An online dietetic counselling service, which is free you have to find on the internet. You have to call there, get in touch, make an appointment for a free telephone or online chat video session with a dietitian. And it's not just a one-off session. You just have to find it. Definitely. Dietitian It doesn't have to be a paid dietitian. If we see that we have some emotional problems, we can't cope with something, if I explode easily. If we find it difficult to sleep somewhere, we are easily awakened. We see that after some situations in our life such hard experiences, after illnesses, after losses, after various strange problems each of us is struggling and we don't know how to cope with it by ourselves. It is worth going to a psychotherapist. It is worth going to a psychotherapist. I, for one, am opposed to any sedative medication from TV and radio commercials. I am a huge opponent of this type, of this type of self-medication. I am in favour of trying to help ourselves wisely. So if at all possible, let's go to a psychotherapist. Sometimes it can even be a matter of one conversation.

Monika Rachtan
But how important, and how an important one that can put a lot into our lives.

Marta Pawłowska
Which can show us a lot. Just can help us a lot. But also, you know, there are a lot of people who say to a psychotherapist is I don't want to go yet, but for example find wise podcasts. Now there are really a lot of good, wise psychotherapists with a lot of experience. Because I recommend that it should be, that it should be a person with at least 10 years of experience working with patients. And such people very often record podcasts, conferences, about anxiety. About shame, about guilt, that you can listen to and kind of try on yourself like that. Do I have that too? So at peace and in such that love.

Monika Rachtan
Like focusing on your needs, just giving yourself time. But you've just said Martha, you've said that you need to talk to your doctor. How to do it, how difficult it is for us. Sometimes it's even like this. We walk into a primary care doctor's office, because I assume that's the roof he's talking about so his diagnostic tool, his eyesight should just be one on the computer. Yes, in one movement she should look and say Patient, we need to talk about something. Primary care doctors don't do that. They look at the computer, they are nervous, they are in a hurry. The queue is known. I understand, I know what the realities are. And now how do I stop this doctor's attention? What do I say to get him to start diagnosing us?

Marta Pawłowska
Firstly, to know what we are entitled to. If you are a person aged 40+ we deserve it like soup. A series of examinations as part of 40+ prevention. To go we have to do it for free. Completely free, of course, and it is quite a large and complete package of tests. We go to the doctor's surgery. It is mandatory, also paid, free for us to be weighed and measured.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, there really is a scale and measure in these surgeries.

Marta Pawłowska
The truth. There is weight. Yes. And we should. If the doctor himself doesn't suggest it, let's make sure we ask for it. Let's say, Doctor, as you can see, I am or am not struggling with excessive body weight and I would like you to weigh, measure, calculate my BMI and help me and help me do something clever about it. Of course, I can already hear the right sighs, the sighs of our, our listeners. However, ladies and gentlemen, we are the ones who are responsible for our health.

Monika Rachtan
This is true

Marta Pawłowska
We bear it, we forget it. If we do not rebuke, we will not be there. If we let ourselves be chased away, then nothing will happen. If we let ourselves be told, yes, you will eat less and move more. And if we let ourselves be chased away by that, then we take responsibility for that too. I understand that it is not easy, but we should learn to demand what we are entitled to. Ask questions such as, doctor, should I still do additional tests so that I do? What do you think? Is it already obese or still overweight? Do you think I should already be diagnosed for other diseases? Where can I do this? What pathway do you suggest? If we press on, if we ask? As I understand it, we will sometimes face runes in the eyes of some doctors? Yes, it is true, it is difficult. But we are the patients. This is our health and we are entitled to it.

Monika Rachtan
This is me thinking about the fact that what blocks patients from talking to such a doctor is when the doctor is also obese. How, excuse the expression, am I supposed to talk about my thickness with a fat doctor? First of all, how does he not cope with his weight by.

Marta Pawłowska
Mine.

Monika Rachtan
Absenteeism, that's all the more reason not to cope. But it's also a bit silly sometimes. Fatty might think something, it falls out, it doesn't fall out to ask. It falls out.

Marta Pawłowska
It definitely falls out. There are doctors among my charges too. There is a diabetologist, there are psychotherapists, doctors or health system staff. It is the same group as any other. If we are talking, because unfortunately in Poland we are getting to a situation where only one third of adults are of the right weight, one third are overweight and one third are struggling with a disease, obesity. So it is very.

Monika Rachtan
Very large.

Marta Pawłowska
It is very prevalent in every social and professional group, so it can be seen among doctors too. And now if a doctor is obese, well, you know, the late Dr Religa, nobody asked him if he smoked cigarettes. Did he smoke? Yes, he was a wonderful operator.

Monika Rachtan
Yes.

Marta Pawłowska
It was his weakness, He was struggling. So perhaps this doctor who sits in front of us is also struggling. Perhaps he is struggling with stress. It is possible. But he has the knowledge and he has the tools to help me with my illness, with my recovery. So there is definitely a fall out. It's important to be brave, because this is about our health.

Monika Rachtan
I'm going to ask you, because you said you have patients, clients, wards. What does such a classic figure look like for a person who comes to you? One comes to a health coach, a family coach and an eating disorder specialist.

Marta Pawłowska
One just comes because one has this feeling that there is more to eating problems than I can handle and that eating problems are interfering with one's normal life. I also run a series of workshops and my clients, because they are overwhelmingly women. I often give sentences like this to finish. And like the sentence is if I didn't think so much about food, and it was so important for me to understand that most women finish it, finish that sentence. That is, if I didn't think so much about food, my life would be fuller. If I had more time for my passions, my life would be happier. That is to say, there are a lot of people who, when struggling with their emotions, struggle with such difficult and recurring thoughts all the time about food whether to eat or not to eat, whether now or later. And why? Why did I eat again? And why do I want a sweet, how do I want a sweet, and what can I do not to want a sweet etc etc etc etc. This can completely drain us of energy and such people see that they need help. Or, for example, I get people who.

Marta Pawłowska
Example of a woman very cool mother, mother of children, wife. To her husband, who came for help because she says You know, I've already been caught by my son stealing sweets from him. We eat them under the duvet and in the morning. In such a sense of shame I take the candy wrappers from under my pillow and carry them out so no one can see and my son finds them. Then there's a row in the house. Well, because it's not normal. Yeah. It means something is going on. A person acts like that, behaves like that. If a young, pretty woman comes in and says, I think I need help because I'm already stupid to go for sweets at my estate and I'm already going into the neighbouring estates. To the shop. It also means that. Maybe somewhere, something needs to be looked into. It's such a cry for help. I can't cope with food. Now, Monica, these are very often people who are not obese people. These are very often people who are a few kilos overweight or slim.

Monika Rachtan
Really even slim people.

Marta Pawłowska
Half of my clients are slim, normal-weight people, and this slimness is often paid for by restrictive diets, for example.

Monika Rachtan
That is, compulsive eating occurs. Yes? That is, I eat sweets for a while. I'll eat them very, very, very much or a bit too much. And then.

Marta Pawłowska
And then I'm going to punish myself, or then I'm going to starve myself, or then I'm going to exercise very intensely.

Monika Rachtan
Let me ask you something else, isn't it that the media, especially the internet, and even more especially Facebook, Instagram, influencers? They show us that being fit on a diet, on a diet is, let's say, on a box diet. Secondly, running.

Marta Pawłowska
Or crossfit necessarily!

Monika Rachtan
Doesn't this drive us into some strange situation where we really stop listening to ourselves? We do what these pseudo experts on healthy living tell us to do. The internet feeds us that we need to be slim, fit and on a diet.

Marta Pawłowska
You are right. The Internet fills us with it and litters us with it. It is one big info dump And we should look very carefully at what we listen to. What we read and what we take from it for our lives. Why me? That is why I always repeat government information sources with a maniac's tenacity. Experts with at least 10 15 years' experience and with a good reputation, because these are the kind of sources that will not harm us. Whereas if we now there's probably not an actor or any actor or influencer who hasn't published a book or doesn't have their series on Instagram, what they're cooking, everyone's cooking, everyone's a food expert, everyone's got their own. And we can get lost in that. Also, this mass of sorry-for-the-word bullshit about whether a vitamin is left-turning or right-turning. That various diets unfortunately invented by trainers, personal trainers, individual trainers are mostly not specialists in healthy eating. I sometimes get such pseudo diets in my hand, such tips for the patient. I feel like going and smacking the trainer in question with it. Yes, a particular author.

Marta Pawłowska
Exactly, only. Only, again, we are the ones who bear the responsibility. And now this internet is full of rubbish and it's up to us to learn to decide who I listen to, who I allow into my life. It's best to stick to certain people, stick to certain experts, stick to certain sources. Because if we don't, well we're going to be from cross fit after every diet. Keep in mind that some of these influencers, actors, etc. These are the people who get paid for appearing with this, with that coffee, with that milk, in that t-shirt. They just get paid for that. And on Monday they advertise something else, on Wednesday they advertise something else. And we accept it. We accept it often on faith and. And we just fill ourselves up with it. It doesn't feed us, you said. It is very important that the internet feeds us. It does feed us, unfortunately, on pride and clogs us up.

Monika Rachtan
Well, that's right, because again the media, and again what we watch on TV and what we listen to on the radio, are telling us that we have to have something, that we have to buy something, that we have to put on an elimination diet, for example not eating gluten, because that was the fashion. Since there is such a thing in the market as a healthy shelf, because many markets have one. And there among this healthy shelf are gluten-free products, then.

Marta Pawłowska
Which one shines from chemistry?

Monika Rachtan
Yes, yes, implicitly these are healthy products. And whether a gluten-free diet, for example. Something else on the menu Coffee and milk.

Marta Pawłowska
Yes, lactose-free. Yes, yes.

Monika Rachtan
Are these even the answers to our problems?

Marta Pawłowska
Definitely not. We make ourselves out of gluten a lot. It was the kind of time when we make a boy to beat. And also here again, there were actors, famous influencers who take before and after pictures. It's 10 kilos back. The actor in question is written up 3 months after he went on a gluten-free diet. And now the whole trap is that maybe it is true. He had this wish he withdrew gluten for himself for 3 months, but that doesn't mean gluten is to blame for obesity. Nonsense, absolutely not. On the other hand, if such a person reduced his gluten intake, he reduced his intake of bread, yeast. They had to go away. Any cakes, biscuits, pastries, dishes had to go. So here also the calorie intake was reduced. Also definitely elimination diets just gluten-free without lactose. These are short, intermittent diets for healthy people. Anyone want to check something? They do us no harm. If they are equipped with a healthy person, they are short-term. We want to find out about something. Like gluten does to me, for example, I don't know who eats it.

Marta Pawłowska
A lot of bread, a lot of gluten, a lot of carbohydrates in general and he would like to limit that and himself. Well. Then I'm going to see how I'm going to feel for a week, for example, without bread at all, the way I'm going to feel. And then you introduce less of that bread, for example. So you can limit certain things, but eliminating gluten won't do anything for us, nor will it slim us down. Just like a lactose-free diet. If someone. Well, if someone is not allergic to lactose, then a lactose-free diet is unnecessary for them. Remember that there is more sugar content in lactose-free products.

Monika Rachtan
For what reason?

Marta Pawłowska
This is because without lactose, which is a sugar, a supernatural sugar, at this point, it is often the case that in order to improve the taste of products, for example, sugar is added.

Monika Rachtan
We probably don't have this Awareness and consciousness at all. By choosing such products we are putting a teaspoon of sugar in every coffee, right?

Marta Pawłowska
But let's even see plant milks. It is very difficult to buy plant milks without added sugar.

Monika Rachtan
it's true

Marta Pawłowska
We think that if there is soya milk, almond milk, oat milk, it is without added sugar. They are on the market. I know, because I myself do not eat meat, so I use such products, but I know how difficult it is to buy such a product without sugar, and I know that it is not one of the tastiest. So just get used to the taste. And most of them contain sugar because we, as consumers, like those products with a certain level of sweetness.

Monika Rachtan
It is true, we have talked a lot about change, we have talked a lot about the fact that sometimes change is needed. In many cases change is needed. If we see a problem in ourselves with food simply or with emotions. How do we wisely start such a change? And I'm not talking about looking at yourself, because we've already talked about that, but then how to implement it, starting on Monday. Is that a good idea.

Marta Pawłowska
And a diet from Monday? Yes. New Year's like New Year's resolutions is what I love about my charges. The fact that it's already like that. Well it's already mid-November so it's going to be different from the new year, Which unfortunately makes us think, I'm going to diet from the new year. Let's remember that it's slimming down or cutting back. It's not thinking about anything other than to stop restricting. So if we're thinking on Saturday we're going to come up with this fiendish idea, from Monday I'm restricting myself, I'm not eating this, this, this, this, this, this, this, then most likely on Saturday and Sunday we're going to make up for the whole week we're going to say from Monday there's just going to be restrictions. And now for the start of the shift Monday, Wednesday, Friday is as good as Sunday. For starting a change, but it's important that this change is planned, that it's my change, that it's me actually wanting, not my family, I want, not my neighbour, I want, not my boss suggesting to me, that it's me actually wanting to be more healthy, to do without breathlessness, to climb the fifth floor, to fit into jeans from a few years ago, that it's my goal, but it's also my goal.

Marta Pawłowska
Here I had these green trousers, trousers, shorts. They have these sporty green shorts. These are 12 years old and they are such a proxy for normalcy for me. How well I buckle up and can walk around fantastic. And if, during the pandemic, something has gone wrong and the shorts have shrunk a bit, that's ok? My aim is this Well, I know, I can see what I need to change. More exercise, less such and such ingredients. But you start the change. I want the change to be my change and to plan it calmly. An evolution, not a revolution. Small steps of one week for example to start. We offer, for example, three slices of bread. I'm quitting for breakfast. Limit them now to two for a week.

Monika Rachtan
Whatever it is.

Marta Pawłowska
It is not little, it is not much.

Monika Rachtan
And we hardly ever take it.

Marta Pawłowska
And we can add lettuce and tomato. Yes, increase that lettuce and tomato and even put more of it. Our brain sees what it sees. And now if we, on the same plate where there were more of these sandwiches, now take off a little bit of the bread, and give more tomato, lettuce, lovely radishes then first of all that's more palatable to us, and secondly we're looking for the brain, because volumetrically it's still the big ones, and our brain really isn't that clever and it doesn't catch that. For example, I don't know, someone sweetens two teaspoons of coffee? I add two teaspoons of sugar to my coffee, then in the first week I give half a teaspoon less in the first week, in the second week I pour a little bit from that barrel again. So slowly but consistently, persistently. And so without catcalling yourself. And we reward ourselves. Not with food no, but you can reward yourself with a massage. You can reward yourself with some book purchase, some mask, some. See how we teach children something new, we reward children.

Monika Rachtan
This is true.

Marta Pawłowska
And as we change our habits, as we learn something new, we don't get rewarded, we get catcalled. You or you? Fat, ugly? Yes, this is the way to do it. And so, and here we associate it with such terrible sacrifice. And really the person on the diet only thinks about stopping being on the diet. And here it's about changing that lifestyle for life, to change it. That's why when I work with my clients, I really like to work all year round, because it allows you to go through one holiday, a holiday, one Christmas, another holiday, three communions, two weddings, three flues, one dog illness, two trips, the arrival of the mother-in-law. And that makes it possible in all these situations. To master my food, to learn to eat in a way that suits me. There's nothing wrong with going to McDonald's once in a while. There's nothing wrong with eating a third of a chocolate bar once in a while, as it says loud and clear. And if our body can cope brilliantly with what we do once in a while, it can't cope with what we do to it all the time.

Monika Rachtan
This is true.

Marta Pawłowska
So if we buy something sweet sometimes, let's go to the balcony where all the neighbours can see the most beautiful plate, the golden spoon. Let's guzzle loudly, but let's make it rare and what we really like.

Monika Rachtan
And not so clogging.

Marta Pawłowska
Such clogging, yes, clogging, buying these large packs I also return. I want to draw your attention very much to such a scam in the form of XXL packaging. So-called family packs.

Monika Rachtan
Family.

Marta Pawłowska
Research makes it clear that we always put more out of a large pack than a small pack. And this applies to dog food as much as to crisps. We always put on more than from a small packet. And now it is hard to deny the logic. A family pack? Only a fool wouldn't take it. Family pack. For the sake of the family means cheaper. Unfortunately, it very often works out cheaper for us. Somehow. And these packets of crisps, the size of a two-year-old child, are something we really do eat to the full. And such family packs. Sliced cheese. Family packs. It's also proven that when those slices are cut, we take it easier. Let's see, if we have to cut two slices of bread and we have to cut the cheese appropriately for me, for you, for the family with a certain amount, we are less likely to eat more than if it's a pack of bread. That is just the way it is taken.

Monika Rachtan
Because we are a bit lazy, no.

Marta Pawłowska
Very lazy.

Monika Rachtan
we don't want to cut.

Marta Pawłowska
And there's this cheese just like if you take a slice there's two slices and then maybe two more slices. And then maybe when I go out and get up from the table I'll take two more because it's sliced.

Monika Rachtan
It's amazing, when you think about it, I look down at myself again and think about it. About those slices. And it's really very rare that I have cubed yellow cheese in the fridge. I happen to go and slash that cheese to eat it. Let's say casually, right? And I've looked at what's in the fridge, cubed cheese needs to be sliced shut and goodbye.

Marta Pawłowska
Slice.

Monika Rachtan
In slices, it's pyk, one slice.

Marta Pawłowska
And one.

Monika Rachtan
That's right.

Marta Pawłowska
There were always two sticking to him. And it's still dinner in only two hours, this, that, something else. And this is where there is always more than we should have. It's worth paying attention to such things. Also, Miss. I am also repeating this here with the stubbornness of a maniac. We used to pay attention to packaging, for example, sweets. How wafers used to look, how they look today. You are still a very young woman, but I do not know. 20 years ago, the so-called Prince Polo bar was a Polish, national good, so you could say it had a certain size. There were also the so-called aeroplane ones, the thin ones like.

Monika Rachtan
There were those I remember and the time.

Marta Pawłowska
Past done. Today it is very rare to recognise them. They are XXL so exactly you can. You know, she could have got you there with that concrete. But it's just that they are bigger.

Monika Rachtan
And we eat them up all at once.

Marta Pawłowska
Let's see On packages of chocolates there used to be only the 100 grams and the cubes. The smallest portion was a cube. Today there is chocolate in a great many. Oh, I point out, especially the kind that children like the basic gram is this big cube, this big bar that has no cubes. She has these stripes.

Monika Rachtan
Yes.

Marta Pawłowska
This is the smallest part that we can hide. And this is the strap? This strip is, Monica, eight cubes.

Monika Rachtan
And please note that on the back this portion is described as one portion, that you are only allowed to eat one portion. That they only counted our calories for that portion. Once we've eaten two strips.

Marta Pawłowska
It's that nobody reads it anymore, nobody reads it. And here we have it again that nobody reads it. And it's just a record that even the producers are obliged to have, so they do it. And here again do we accept that? But let's see what a trap it is too, that we eat what the producer just gives us.

Monika Rachtan
This is true.

Marta Pawłowska
We don't ask ourselves, if there's a cheese in a packet like this, is this the right portion for me?

Monika Rachtan
Can I eat half of this cheese?

Marta Pawłowska
Or half a ball of mocarelli ?

Monika Rachtan
That's right.

Marta Pawłowska
Why the whole ball of truth? Why did the whole package assimilate me like that? Of course you are right. It says one serving, something there, something there. But that packet suggests a portion.

Monika Rachtan
Well, that is it. We are completely unaware. We do not think about it at all. I have this impression. We just eat, eat, eat. But also see. I think we are comfortable. After all, when I take this ball out, I'll pour out all this water that I've been mopping up. I'd like to pour that water into a glass container, unscrew it, put it in the fridge it takes up space. I'll probably spoil it, then I'll eat it all for peace of mind and it will be eaten, forgotten already taken care of.

Marta Pawłowska
This post-racialisation of ours just mixed with such. Convenience, laziness, but convenience. We have a lot of things that we do. So we already want to simplify such situations for ourselves. And you are right, that is mostly how we think. Yes, but if we cut off that third of the ball once, we give it to the plate just by the foil. The second time we do it, the third time it does it.

Monika Rachtan
It's going to take some getting used to, some normal people.

Marta Pawłowska
That's exactly right. We are getting into a habit. A different normalcy, a new normalcy is just beginning.

Monika Rachtan
Ms Marta, I'm collecting questions from the patient groups in this programme and here in the context of eating disorders, eating disorders, I found one question that I think is terribly important to answer at all. How do I talk to a person close to me who. Is fat. Doesn't suffer from obesity, doesn't have an eating disorder problem. There is a group and I can't look at her anymore. I'm thinking here about relationships. For example, when a husband communicates to his wife in this way.

Marta Pawłowska
This is very difficult, especially in those closest relationships. Because, on the one hand, do we communicate, what intention are we communicating it with? Because, you know, it's not like Tuesday to Wednesday someone came.

Monika Rachtan
Of course it does.

Marta Pawłowska
It doesn't happen that way. So somewhere. If it is a married couple and a man, let's assume that the man does not have this problem. The woman puts on a lot of weight. So, you know, it's also not possible for her to be ok at home and them to just not know how much she eats outside the home. And it's not possible that it was from Tuesday to Thursday. So somewhere we didn't react after 5 plus we didn't react. It was 10 kilos plus, and we might have reacted, but inappropriately and then we were dumbfounded and all of a sudden and by 20 kilos plus and this person is closed and we don't know at all how to reach her, how to talk with all gentleness, to find the right moment, to propose something together, to propose changes together. Because it could also be that the husband is slim, moves a lot or works physically, has such a job that he burns. The woman cooks perfectly, there is also the mother-in-law and the mother also cooks perfectly, perfectly. Let it still be the case that this lady is a doctor, so some of the patients reciprocate with various sweets and this is just done a lot.

Marta Pawłowska
Husband burned? No. And now. And they eat one thing. So here you have to touch the system, touch the what and the family. And maybe we should all change the food. Will it help you to start some physical activity together? Talk gently. Ask if. Do you want to talk to me about it? I love you as you are. But I can see that I don't know. We were on a trip and you had trouble climbing the stairs. Well, you know, it's also not like someone who is 30 kilos overweight and is spry and buoyant and very fit. In the same way, you might not have diseases. Still, still.

Monika Rachtan
Because obesity causes.

Marta Pawłowska
Obesity, causes more than two hundred different diseases, more than two hundred different illnesses. Of course, it may be that up to a certain point nothing happens, but unfortunately, later on, very often these diseases are triggered. Let us also remember one thing, that adipose tissue is not such a blanket, such a mattress.

Monika Rachtan
He warms with it.

Marta Pawłowska
Kettlebell. We need a certain amount of adipose tissue because it protects the internal organs, but the more adipose tissue we have in excess, the one thing to remember is that adipose tissue is always metabolically active in a pro-inflammatory way.

Monika Rachtan
Meaning.

Marta Pawłowska
That is, excess body fat it is. Permanent. Delighted? An inflammatory state of our body.

Monika Rachtan
Ms Marta, what are three important things from our talk today that every person who has listened to us should remember, regardless of whether. Does he or she suffer from obesity and is overweight? Does she have a normal body weight? Or is she on a diet all the time?

Marta Pawłowska
I understand. The first thing is that we influence what we eat and how we live. We didn't always have an influence in the future. Yes, we are from different families, from different backgrounds, so often even over epilepsy. Obesity is not our fault, but it is always our responsibility. And we can always make a difference. We have this causality within ourselves and the belief that doing something and not doing something is the same habit, only it's the other way around. So the first principle is that we have an impact on how we live, how we eat. The second principle it is worth increasing our awareness and it is worth experimenting. So it's worth reading this internet rubbish, finding two sites that are good for me, safe? Exactly. The National Centre for Nutrition Education. It's me until death I'll recommend the NFZ go diet in PL, because it's the best free diet portal. And the Dash diet or in general with the Dash diet nutrition for healthy and sick people. The best in the world? There is no such thing. We have access to it. That is, raise awareness, but read the proven, reliable stuff, experiment.

Marta Pawłowska
So listen to you cza. Will I like it, or will I not like it? This kale is what I have to do, like it or not like it? I don't even like it, but I can do other things. I can listen to a different lettuce, I can make broad beans in such and such a way. I can add cherries to the salad and.

Monika Rachtan
He says This is true. Yes.

Marta Pawłowska
We experiment. That is the second principle. And the third rule is we are not a lonely island. I think that's really what we often think is so shameful. It's mine. It's maybe silly, silly to say that I have a problem with food. Men often don't understand either. This is with all due respect to meat. I mix women often, because my husband doesn't understand he says Well what do you mean you can't stop? What do you mean you have to eat six sweets? No, maybe something two? Well what do you mean you have to 6. They don't understand it. And that is if one person finds another person who has a similar problem, finds a specialist, finds a person to share it with. It will be easier for her, because it's easier to go into change when we have support. Let's remember we are not an island. Let us search.

Monika Rachtan
Ms Marta, you probably know that a partner in this project is the Institute for Patients' Rights and Health Education, which talks a lot about the humanisation of medicine. What does this humanisation mean to you?

Marta Pawłowska
An extremely important phenomenon, and one that the pandemic has exposed as essential in the modern humanisation of medicine. For me, it is above all about looks. A look that is deep, multi-faceted and attentive to the patient. A look in which there is room for the patient's individuality, for his or her personal qualities. And certainly there must be room for his dignity, for his rights, for his otherness. Is this such a broad, comprehensive, profound view of the patient with love? Not as an Excel bar, but as a human being? And the humanisation of medicine, which as an idea has been popularised in Poland for many years now. The Institute speaks beautifully about this in the book by Dr Arkadiusz Nowak. But, after all, Prof. Adam Jedliński spent the second half of the 20th century talking a lot about it together with his colleagues. And it seems that we are already very good at theory.

Monika Rachtan
How about practice?

Marta Pawłowska
However, in practice and in the training of healthcare professionals, this humanisation of medicine still seems to be somewhere. I'm sorry, I'll say it like prevention is a bit of a worse sister, and humanisation is invaluable The humanisation of medicine draws our attention to the importance of communication with the patient, and not only between the doctor and the patient, but communication in general when a person becomes a patient and comes into contact with the system.

Monika Rachtan
On this front is your registrar.

Marta Pawłowska
Ms Registrar, there is a person on the phone. Right? There is and there is a radiologist. Yes, the dehumanisation of medicine draws our attention to what the pandemic has also just exposed, that we can unknowingly deepen the process of dehumanisation as a result of the great advances, computerisation and digitalisation of healthcare. This is all very good. It is all for the good of humanity. However, somewhere a side effect may be the exclusion of certain groups. And here we can speak of a certain dehumanisation. I agree with Dr Arkadiusz Nowak, who always inspires as such an open question. Should we? He puts the emphasis on the humanisation of medicine, or the humanisation of the healthcare system. Because, after all, it is human to human here. And it seems to me that this is what is most alive today and what we should be emphasising so that precisely in the health care system there are more, more professionals, aware and consciously implementing these principles of humane, human, empathetic health care?

Monika Rachtan
I would very much like every patient in our country to feel cared for in such a way that they are no longer this number or rectangle in Excel, but that they meet specialists on their way who are willing to look at them holistically and who are willing to take care. To take care of a lot of problems. I hope.

Marta Pawłowska
Listen.

Monika Rachtan
Yes, I hope it gets better and better with that. Ms Marta, thank you very much for talking to us today. Thank you. I was very pleased. You are growing. I think we've covered a lot of important information for patients and I would urge us all to sit down today, think about who we can kindly talk to if we would like to change something in terms of our eating. If we would like to change something in the context of our relationship with food or just looking for that person in the kitchen, maybe some old friend that we could talk to?

Marta Pawłowska
Necessarily the husband, because he won't understand and a jealous work colleague won't necessarily either.

Monika Rachtan
It should not be slim.

Marta Pawłowska
Maybe not so different anymore. With work colleagues it varies.

Monika Rachtan
Very well, then, let us look for a sympathetic person. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you very much for today's programme. Well, see you next week.

Marta Pawłowska
Thank you.

Monika Rachtan
Thank you.